User talk:Rosguill

Restore autopatrolled user rights

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Hello, hope you are doing well. Could you please restore my autopatrolled user rights? Regards TheBirdsShedTears (talk) 07:51, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, I don't see a reason for doing this: 4/5 of your most recent articles have been deleted at AfD, and the most recent one was approved but tagged for several issues. In general, you've hardly edited since the permissions were removed, and I'm not seeing any acknowledgement of the past UPE concerns. signed, Rosguill talk 22:53, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Voisava Kastrioti

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I've addressed the initial request to keep an eye on Voisava Kastrioti, which was appropriate. The thread has since devolved into rather flimsy accusations against specific editors that have left no one looking particularly great. As a reminder, I generally do not impose sanctions as a result of disruptive editing complaints brought to my talk page unless the issues are in the realm of obvious vandalism and other bright red-line violations. For anything more in the weeds than that, please bring your case to AE or ANI in order to allow for a more thorough examination of evidence. signed, Rosguill talk 12:32, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Since you are an admin involved in AE stuff, I would like to raise my concern about the frequent edit warring on Voisava Kastrioti. The article is freuqently a subject of edit warring, ususally involving multiple editors. Would you consider placing some revert restriction on the article, such as an AE-logged 1RR? Ktrimi991 (talk) 15:13, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ktrimi991, I've added the page to my watchlist, will deliver CTOP notices to people who haven't received one. While I agree that there's been excessive reverting, given the variety of different editors involved, the age of the accounts, and that most instances are just a single undo, I'm not seeing a quick fix measure that would clearly help. signed, Rosguill talk 15:31, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
OK, thanks, keeping an eye on the article is great. I would also ask for your attention at that edit summary by Khirurg, to whom you have given an AE-logged warning against making accusations of nationalistic editing without evidence [1]. I don't agree with the changes made by RoyalHeritageAlbanian, but their edit is certainly not nationalistic. It concerns wording that has been a concern for multiple editors of different backgrounds. This actuallyis part of a pattern of making personal attacks in edit summaries by Khirurg, e.g. "get a life and learn to properly count reverts, stalker". In a wider context, keeping an eye on the civiliy of editors on the Voisava article might be as valuable as preventing the edit warring itself. Personal attacks unfortunately have been made by various editors before as well in disputes on Voisava. Cheers, Ktrimi991 (talk) 15:41, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Rosguill: On the subject of the disruptive edit by RoyalHeritageAlb, the evidence is the edit itself and the misleading edit-summary used. It's a pretty obvious attempt at removing undesirable information (that the mother of the Albanian national hero Skenderbeg was in fact Serbian), precisely the type of disruption that plagues the article practically non-stop. And everyone involved knows this full well, which is why no one has reverted my edit, despite all the concerns about "civility". On the subject of civility, which Ktrimi seems so concerned about, let's not forget this lol Don't worry, not everyone "hides" things. lol by Ktrimi, while he was edit-warring [2] [3]. Laughing and mocking other users in edit summaries is highly incivil, as it poisons the atmosphere and makes reaching a compromise that much harder. Rosguill, as I'm sure you are aware as well, I've lost count how many times Ktrimi or someone from the same group editors that edits the same topics from the same POV has come to your talkpage for block-fishing. I've been editing this encyclopedia for over 17 years, and as you can see I have acquired many enemies who continuously try to find a "gotcha", but while avoiding ANI or AE, where their own behavior would come under scrutiny. Khirurg (talk) 00:06, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
he was edit-warring with whom were I "edit warring"? With you. And you know full well I did not "mock" you; I just responded to your claim that my edit was "hiding" information to readers, a claim which you had done multiple times in the past as well. Anyways, I was not asking for a block above; I did mention your personal attack against RHA as the latest example of PA breaches on Voisava so Rosguill is aware that edit warring is not the only issue concerning the article. You are not the only one there in recent months to have breached the civility policy while editing or discussing Voisava. If I were to seek sanctions on you personally, I would report you at AE. Rosguill themselves have made it clear in the past that they are not willing to sanction reports posted on this tp. as you can see I have acquired many enemies It is such a pity that you think fellow editors are "enemies". We are here to build a better encyclopedia for the readers, we are not at war. Cheers, Ktrimi991 (talk) 00:45, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Rosguill, I don't want this to turn into a wall of text, so I will not respond again. My request for you is, if you are willing, to keep an eye on the Voisava Kastrioti article for both edit warring (be it "slow" or blatant 3RR breaches) and civility issues. The article has had enough of both, and admin attention is long overdue. Cheers, Ktrimi991 (talk) 00:45, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
(ec) It's pretty obvious what you came here to try and get, so let's not pretend. But yes, I do agree that the article really needs admin attention. Stuff like this [4] really needs to stop. Khirurg (talk) 00:54, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Not sure why you did bring that edit up. I removed content that did not concern Voisava and Barleti, and later made an edit that ended the dispute between multiple editors after suitable sources were found. Ktrimi991 (talk) 01:00, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Because it's part of the same pattern of disruption, identical in spirit as RHA's edit - removal of "undesirable" information, even though it's well sourced and long-standing. It keeps happening, there and in many other articles as well. Khirurg (talk) 01:04, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Also, for the record. a pretty obvious attempt at removing undesirable information (that the mother of the Albanian national hero Skenderbeg was in fact Serbian) RHA did not remove the theory of Serb origin; the section continued to mention the possibility of her being a member of the Brankovic family. You can disagree with the edit (as I do), but you can't call it "nationalistic POV-pushing". Ktrimi991 (talk) 00:52, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
(ec) He explicitly removed the word "Serbian", in spite of the multitude of sources in the article (and more that could be added), with a misleading edit-summary on top of that. It doesn't get worse than that, really. Khirurg (talk) 00:55, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As comment within this post [5] in relation to me was mentioned, my thoughts are this. @Khirurg, a Wikipedian of 17 years continues with poor engagement with editors instead of cordial or neutral interaction. Even in this thread, Khirurg considers some editors as "enemies" [6]. Rosguill, it may explain the WP:BATTLEGROUND behavoir @Khirurg brings to editing Wikipedia and keeps reappearing time and time again. Looking at some of @Khirurg's edit history, these flare ups happen or are triggered with editors who either edit the Albanian space or Turkish space and related topical articles. It appears there is a pattern, something that has gone on for nearly two decades. Whether or not further action is needed is up to administrators. Within the General sanctions list, for the WP:BALKANS, a suggestion for this case would be an interaction ban between @RoyalHeritageAlb and @Khirurg to try and prevent this poor behavoir. Or banning both from editing the Balkans topic area completely, as as been done with other past editors. One hopes there is improvement on the part of all editors with the maturity of time, as editing in the Balkan space is complicated enough. Cheers.Resnjari (talk) 02:24, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
WP:HOUND, WP:ASPERSIONS. WP:BATTLEGROUND applies to editors making baseless accusations and generating drama, such as yourself here. Looking at some of @Khirurg's edit history, these flare ups happen or are triggered with editors who either edit the Albanian space or Turkish space and related topical articles. I could just easily say the same thing about you, Ktrimi991, and RoyalHeritageAlb (and many others) with regards to the Greek and Serbian topic space. When you left that invalid warning on my talkpage (I only had one revert), why didn't you do the same at Ktrimi's talkpage? When editors are civil and collaborative, I have an easy time reaching a compromise [7]. Considering how closely you follow me around and watch my talkpage, didn't you see that? The problem is always with the same group of editors, not me. You should be sanctioned for making groundless accusations and purposely misleading one-sided statements.Khirurg (talk) 03:25, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Primary sources tag for APPF

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Hi @Rosguill, thanks for adding the tag on the page of the APPF. I hadn't realised that most sources were primary, that was a good point. I just added a number of third-party sources to the article in several sections. I have to say that there just isn't much around; it's just not a very news-worthy agency at this point. Would you want to check the article again and see whether it would be justified to remove the banner? Julius Schwarz (talk) 09:20, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Julius Schwarz, the new citations are an improvement, but overall the bulk of the article's text and analysis still relies predominantly on the primary sources. You may have better luck looking for coverage in scholarly publications (i.e. check Google Scholar) as academics will presumably be investigating and writing about the bodies and functions of the EU even if they haven't necessarily done anything conventionally newsworthy yet. signed, Rosguill talk 16:29, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hi @Rosguill, thanks for the quick reply. In truth, I have already looked at academic sources and there isn't much. Just now I bookmarked a few more to go through later and possibly add if relevant. But the fact is that this agency is still rather new (set up in 2016 but really started its work in 2018) and deals with entities that already receive limited attention. So even after I add additional sources, the fact that primary sources remain the bulk of the sources will remain true for a very long time. It's not that the research is not done and the banner could incentivise users to add sources, it's just that there is a dearth of sources. Julius Schwarz (talk) 17:09, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Kalachuri (Rajput clan)

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Hello @Rosguill. Please look at Kalachuri (Rajput clan) whose origin is uncertain. [8], [9], [10]. 2409:4085:9C46:2345:0:0:8849:7B15 (talk) 05:17, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Autopatrol rights

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Hello there,

I'd like to personally thank you for granting me the autopatrol rights on a temporary basis for the backlog drive. I learned quite a bit from this journey, but I don't believe I am ready for the permanent right yet. I want to do some more content creation to understand some of the different nuances of going through different review statuses as well as experience more article creation as a user. Plus, I had made some boneheaded mistakes like a clear copy-paste violation instead of a move. So, ultimately my time as a perm is not yet, but I shall pursue it some time in the future.

Thank you for letting me taste what could be. In return, here is something you could taste:

Conyo14 (talk) 10:38, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

September 2024 NPP backlog drive – Points award

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The Reviewer Barnstar
This award is given in recognition to Rosguill for accumulating at least 50 points during the September 2024 NPP backlog drive. Your contributions helped play a part in the 19,000+ articles and 35,000+ redirects reviewed (for a total of 26,884.6 points) completed during the drive. Thank you so much for taking part and contributing to help reduce the backlog! Hey man im josh (talk) 15:24, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Glad to see I'm not alone on this ...

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Per your comment here: I have on several occasions in the last few months lamented the fact that, despite the increasing amount of protection and edit warring we see in articles related to it, the Maghreb is not a contentious topic area. It is getting to be as problematic as the Horn.

Had I the time and greater knowledge of where to dig up the evidence on it, I'd put together a request to ArbCom to make that designation, much as they did with Sri Lanka earlier this year (the first time a CTOP has been created outside of a case specific to that area). Daniel Case (talk) 21:56, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Daniel Case, anecdotally I feel like I've always run into more disruption around North African topics than the Horn. signed, Rosguill talk 22:32, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That may have to do with the latter's CTOPS designation.
It's not the only area that would be under CTOPS if it were purely up to me ... Daniel Case (talk) 22:34, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps, although this may have been true even before then? I've edited and kept tabs on a slew of country-history and country-religion articles since before ARBHORN and feel like I've pretty consistently seen the most disruption around Egypt, Morocco, Algeria and Tunisia (and the most vandalism in Latin America and Oceania). But maybe that lens doesn't capture what people fight about in East Africa topics.
At a certain point, I wonder whether we could just have a CTOP designation for national disputes in general. With only a few exceptions, they're the root problem of almost all of the most problematic CTOP areas signed, Rosguill talk 22:54, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment

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Your feedback is requested at Talk:John Rustad on a "All RFCs" request for comment. Thank you for helping out!
You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of Feedback Request Service subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by removing your name.

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Redirect incorrect

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Dear Rosguill,

I am a brandnew Wikipedia editor, asking for help.

I have been a member of the International Sufi Movement (ISM), or rather one of its affiliates for 30+ years. This is an organisation founded in 1923 in Geneva, by Hazrat Inayat Khan, a sufi teacher that moved to the west.

This organisation is still very much alive. To my surprise I found that a redirect was put in, redirecting to an organisation called the Inayattya order. That is also still alive, and it split off in the 1950's or such from our movement. This is fine with me, the more the merrier, so to say.

So I set out and registered as an editor.

I feel this is an act of mischief, the entire information about the ISM has been erased from the active wikipedia. I saw that someone had deleted the redirect, claiming that the ISM and the Inayattya are different organisations, which is correct. It appears that you later reversed that delete.

Can I ask you why? I feel I am too young as a wikipedian to reverse an administrator without consult first!

But ultimately we have a strong case based on documents and facts, and I hope we can solve this without editing wars or something like that!

Best regards, Nurbaksh / Mark Veldhuis. Nurbaksh (talk) 09:59, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Nurbaksh, looking at the page history, it looks like a version of the article was first created in 2005 and deleted later that year following Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/International Sufi Movement. A separate version was created in 2007 and existed until 2010, when it was converted to a redirect following the removal of copyright-infringing text and an assessment by the editor performing the edit that the page was a fork of Universal Sufism. This was changed to be a redirect to Inayati Order by a different editor in 2016. My only edit to the page has been to reverse a mistaken attempt to delete the page in 2020 by simply removing its whole content (which is not the correct process).
So, with all that in mind but without having looked at any of the sourcing in detail, my assessment is that 1) the prior versions of this article were removed through what appears to have been above board, good-faith editing, not mischief 2) nevertheless, it's been more than a decade since anyone has tried to create an article for this topic or otherwise discussed the validity of such an attempt, so any editor can feel free to convert the redirect into an actual article at this time 3) but I would first check Western Sufism (the more recent title of the Universal Sufism page) and other related Sufism articles in order to confirm that we're not accidentally creating a fork.
Since you are a member of the ISM, you have a conflict of interest with the topic, which you should disclose on your user page and on the talk page of International Sufi Movement if you decide to edit it extensively. Also per the COI guidelines I linked in the prior sentence, if you choose to create an article on this topic, you should use Wikipedia:Articles for creation to prepare and submit a draft for review. signed, Rosguill talk 13:25, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Need your opinion

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I have, since late September, noticed an influx of IPs that are editing the same articles as blocked user:Armen888. These IPs edit solely in Armenian topics adding questionable information and [WP:JDLI|deleting referenced information]. When I logged in today one of these IPs has now canvassed user:Yerevantsi about my removing Armenian ethnicity from the David the Invincible article since a university source questions his ethnicity.

IPs in question.

My question is, can we protect the articles(under WP:GS/AA enforcement 500/30 restrictions) these IPs continue to disrupt or would filing an SPI be a more prudent action? Or both? --Kansas Bear (talk) 16:27, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Kansas Bear, I think SPI seems most appropriate here given the range of articles affected. This IP range may merit investigation, although there is some noise that doesn't quite match Armen888. signed, Rosguill talk 17:05, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Name

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Hello, please review this edit. It’s not a title; it’s part of his name. It represents a genre of Bangladeshi names, similar to Syed Shamsul Haque.–𝐎𝐰𝐚𝐢𝐬 𝐀𝐥 𝐐𝐚𝐫𝐧𝐢 ʕʘ̅͜ʘ̅ʔ 05:23, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Done signed, Rosguill talk 13:03, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. However, we don't need "(scholar)" as there is no article by that name.–𝐎𝐰𝐚𝐢𝐬 𝐀𝐥 𝐐𝐚𝐫𝐧𝐢 ʕʘ̅͜ʘ̅ʔ 13:25, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hello, I would like to draw your attention to the article Fazlul Karim (scholar). It should be renamed to Syed Fazlul Karim. He was the father of Syed Rezaul Karim and Syed Faizul Karim, and the son of Syed Muhammad Ishaq.–𝐎𝐰𝐚𝐢𝐬 𝐀𝐥 𝐐𝐚𝐫𝐧𝐢 ʕʘ̅͜ʘ̅ʔ 06:55, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Owais Al Qarni,  Done, in the future you can also bring such requests to WP:RM. signed, Rosguill talk 14:20, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello

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On [11], if I may suggest a "broadly construed" on that. Articles like Biafra, their draft(s?) etc. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 19:07, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, it was intended as broadly construed, such that any group Ekpa has belonged to would be in-scope (but I'll make sure to clarify that before moving forward). Hypothetically I think there could be room for constructive editing about Biafra as long as it doesn't overlap with Ekpa and his government-in-exile activities, which to my reading comprise the clear focal point of the sockpuppetry. signed, Rosguill talk 19:12, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Creating page after blocking

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User:SOURAVSHETTIGAR now used User:2402:8100:2818:6FA2:0:0:0:1 for undid your editing in Bharathiya Janata Party, Kerala, Bharatiya Janata Party, Puducherry, Bharatiya Janata Party, Tamil Nadu अर्नाब5454 (talk) 17:36, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It seems like the IP has in all three cases started essentially a new article from scratch, rather than reverting to the prior edit. It may still be inappropriate to create these articles, but I'm not quite sure this is sockpuppetry. signed, Rosguill talk 20:16, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I learned a new phrase

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Lol, have never heard of it before! TrangaBellam (talk) 20:46, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ha, if we had an article I would have linked it. signed, Rosguill talk 20:50, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Indef of Mikewem

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I'm reaching out because I think an indef might be a bit too much in this instance. Due to the inherently bitey nature of ECR their reaction wasn't unexpected, and although they needed to let it go i think that putting them into AE appeals to be unblocked with so little experience is essentially going to end their time as a contributor. Hopefully if they had a short forced timeout that would give them time to read the CTOP info and reach out for any clarification, as well as let the initial bite wear wear off so they could engage with a level head. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 20:31, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

ScottishFinnishRadish, I would be open to waiving the need to appeal to AE if they indicate an understanding of what is expected of them and of CT editing moving forward. I don't see any such recognition thus far, and instead see clear intent to continuously litigate and selectively read what is communicated to them. signed, Rosguill talk 20:40, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, I think that's reasonable. I don't think the chance is high, in my experience less than 5%, that they'll become a regular editor but at least this way we can say we tried. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 20:55, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
FWIW, one thing that did factor into my initial decision was that reviewing their edits, even before the issue at Talk:Zionism, they had a confrontational interaction with PakEditor at Liturgy, where they asserted that they were upholding NPOV by what appears to be a misreading of the text, misunderstanding a sentence asserting that liturgy can specifically refer to Christian public prayer (with an unambiguous, verbatim citation to OED) to be somehow minimizing other religions. While Mikewem has to their credit mostly remained calm/polite, at pretty much every turn they've demonstrated a lack of due diligence, an inability to admit fault, and a tendency to assume bad faith. signed, Rosguill talk 21:01, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I agree. I don't want to give the impression that I think this was an unreasonable block, just that I thought that a lighter sanction might give a chance at a better outcome. I really appreciate you hearing me out about it, as well as being receptive enough to make an adjustment. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 21:25, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

{{sources exist}} on Girl Anachronism

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Would you please add a {{refideas}} template to the talk page with the Google Scholar sources? Mach61 17:09, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I ended up self-reverting the addition of the template, as on closer investigation the papers I found were all undergraduate or Master's publications. signed, Rosguill talk 17:32, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I have accordingly unreviewed the article. Cheers, Mach61 17:46, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, meant to do that but evidently missed that step. signed, Rosguill talk 17:49, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Illeana Douglas & Talk:Illeana Douglas

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Illeana Douglas & Talk:Illeana Douglas are currently disabled by new or unregistered users (so far, three years). would you re-enable? ... 69.181.17.113 (talk) 00:09, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

restore this?
{{Notice|1=This talk page is semi-protected due the [[WP:BLP]] policy. If you want to request an edit on this page click [[WP:RFED|here]] instead.}}
69.181.17.113 (talk) 00:18, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
need to show Melvyn Douglas (Melvyn Edouard Hesselberg) is grandfather to Illeana Douglas (Hesselberg) 69.181.17.113 (talk) 00:21, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Do you have a source for this claim? signed, Rosguill talk 05:03, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A cup of tea for you!

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I was looking for a Mentorship barnstar, but unfortunately couldn't. Sending over this cup of tea (perhaps because I'm biased towards tea, I like it much more than any other thing) to appreciate everything that I learned from you during my NPR schooling. Earlier this year, I passed my RfA on Wikimedia Commons and then on Urdu Wikipedia, and over the years, have been gladly able to attend several Wikimedia events. I have always been through a lot of wiki-tech and volunteer as a translation administrator across several wikis. I recently came across you again at WP:VRTN, and I remembered, I have a thanks due. You have been a kind mentor. Thank you for being here. I have learned a lot from you. Thank you for making this difference. Regards, Aafi (talk) 17:16, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Aafi, I'm touched, thank you. If we ever cross paths at a Wikimedia event we should definitely share some tea. signed, Rosguill talk 17:27, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I am hopeful. Thank you for responding. Regards, Aafi (talk) 17:39, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Bloqué ΓΚΝΟΥ?

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Perhaps tu should bloqué cette l'utilisateur? Il/elle engage dans disruptive editing. (LOL) Myrealnamm (💬pros · 📜cons) 23:49, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

S'il continue ouis, mais iel n'avait pas editée plus apres l'avertissement finale. signed, Rosguill talk 00:13, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Copy of recently deleted article

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Hi, any chance of letting me have a copy of this article? Selfstudier (talk) 12:49, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Just ignore this, I have a copy now, thanks. Selfstudier (talk) 14:35, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Scott Burchill

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Thanks for bringing this theorist to my attention. I think I'll enjoy reading some of his work. Simonm223 (talk) 19:32, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In addition to his picking apart of media memes in the broader text I linked at AE, his papers on Liberal [12], Marxist and Anarchist [13] views of the state, as well as the broader place of Marxian theory in international relations academia [14] are interesting. signed, Rosguill talk 19:42, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Ooo, thanks! Those look right up my alley. Simonm223 (talk) 19:45, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

the indefinite topic ban

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Hello, Rosguill. Yesterday I was left heartbroken after being banned from the AA topic by you without a chance to respond to the Vanezi's misrepresenting claims. [15]

May I write my response to Vanezi that would consist of a table and several references to the AA topic?

Regards, Hew Folly (talk) 11:39, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hew Folly, no. I gave you a chance to respond, waiting until you continued editing before addressing the concerns raised. You ignored the concerns, and proceeded to post a The message on Lucky102's talk page alone is clearly against the letter and spirit of GS/AA and merits a ban after having received the prior warnings from Firefangledfeathers (as would the edits I identified from the report). You have received sufficient warnings and second chances already. Your remaining recourse is to follow the standard appeals procedures described in the ban notice. I would strongly recommend that you first demonstrably build up your editing skills and dedication to Wikipedia by making significant contributions to other topics. signed, Rosguill talk 14:04, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Chance to respond

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I gave you a chance to respond, waiting until you continued editing before addressing the concerns raised. You ignored the concerns, and proceeded to post a The message on Lucky102's talk page alone is clearly against the letter...
I propose to look through chronology:
My post on Lucky102's talk page was written at 05:16 on November 12, 2024 [16].
Vanezi wrote his distorted claims more than 16 hours later, at 22:13, November 12. [17]
And you issued your ban less than 24 hours after the Vanetsi's letter in the absence of my answer, at 14:55, next day, November 13.[18]. And then issued your ban notice right after that(one minute later), at 14:56, November 13 [19], and then on the AEL page, just three minutes later or at 14:59, November 13.[20]
All my edits after the Vanezi's letter were either related to my response on my draft page or those posted on your talk page on starting from 16:10 November 13 to November 14. [21]. Last but not least, the edits were done more than 1 hour after you imposed your ban, and not before.
Conclusion: you technically couldn't impose your ban due to alegged disregard to the raised issue (in the form of post on Lucky102 and edits after the issue) from my side for the following reasons:
1. My post on the Luck102's page was written before the issue was ever raised.
2. All my edits after the issue was raised were not only related to the issue itself but were also done after the ban was actually imposed.
Do you agree?
Regards, Hew Folly (talk) 18:03, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
See WP:WIKILAWYER. I still think the ban is warranted for the reasons I have already laid out, I do not disagree with the technicalities you point out but they're ultimately irrelevant. You have not demonstrated care for abiding by GS/AA after warnings; no further warning or response was required following the initial CTOPs notice left by FireFangledFeathers about 3 months ago. I'll also note that you're addressing comments that I had already struck and amended as of several hours ago. signed, Rosguill talk 18:05, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
See WP:WIKILAWYER. I still think the ban is warranted for the reasons I have already laid out, I do not disagree with the technicalities you point out but they're ultimately irrelevant.
Sure, I have some questions about them, too. But let's finish this one, because there's still some unclarity about that:
I'll also note that you're addressing comments that I had already struck and amended as of several hours ago
I have checked both the older and current versions and noticed that only one of the comments I addressed [22] was struck [23], while the first line (I gave you a chance to respond, waiting until you continued editing before addressing the concerns raised.) remains unchanged in both versions. [24] [25].
Let me just clarify if you still stand with it.
Regards, Hew Folly (talk) 07:37, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Apologies for the error in the application of the text striking. This has now been addressed. signed, Rosguill talk 16:21, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you! We have finished this part and now I suggest to start working on the next one. Hew Folly (talk) 16:53, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

WP:Tendentious, relevance and source-free

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After our previous discussion, I appreciate your modified post on my talk page. Although there is still some unclarity:

I am also deeply concerned by the most recent comment, which is another irrelevant, RGW and source-free statement about Armenia-Azerbaijan. [26] [27]

So, we have two comments: Mine and that of Lucky102:

1. The Lucky102's post was written on a Stepanakert talk page [28] that was published on January 16, at 06:06. [29].Note: as you can see, Lucky102's post was published with no links but WP:OR (which is legitimate for a Talk page), supported by links to Wikipedia pages [30], not specific sources, proper.

2. My post on his Talk page published several months later on November 12, at 05:16. [31]. Note: this post, as you can see, was tagged with a link to his post on another talk page[32], and provided with a source[33] to a text on another Wikipedia page that itself had a source [34].

Was my statement on the Lucky102's source-free, as you mentioned here [35] ?— Preceding unsigned comment added by Hew Folly (talk • contribs)

The difference is that as an editor who is not yet extended confirmed, you are expressly forbidden from making any edits to this topic at all, unless they are obviously constructive improvements like correcting spelling mistakes, updating information based on RS, etc. Lucky102's comment in this case does appear to be subpar and reflects poorly of them. If they exhibit a consistent pattern of behavior in this fashion, they may face sanctions. But as an editor with more than 500 edits and 30 days, they are allowed to participate and that means some leeway for being less-than-constructive in discussions. You have not reached that level of clearance, and thus are held to a higher standard per WP:GS/AA. The exceptions to GS/AA exist to allow us to accept clearly beneficial edits that no one would object to; you have repeatedly abused them to make polemic arguments on talk pages, and for this reason you have been indefinitely banned from the topic.
I believe that I have sufficiently explained the grounds for the sanction. Any further appeals should be made to WP:AE. signed, Rosguill talk 19:25, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I believe that I have sufficiently explained the grounds for the sanction. Any further appeals should be made to WP:AE
To appeal to WP:AE (or any other relevant Wikipedia arbitral institution) is exactly what I am planning to do, but I need to clarify all the unclear issues, as you recommended yourself [36].
Lucky102's comment in this case does appear to be subpar and reflects poorly of them.If they exhibit a consistent pattern of behavior in this fashion, they may face sanctions.[37]
And that's exactly what I meant when wrote that Lucky102's statement was not subject to the Wikipedia rules[38]. Can we now agree that my post on his talk page was relevant, not WP:Tendentious due to this reason [39] and the fact that I actually supported his point, and definetely not source-free? If yes, please modify your comments here [40].

GS/AA, Polemic ≠ disruptive

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The exceptions to GS/AA exist to allow us to accept clearly beneficial edits that no one would object to; you have repeatedly abused them to make polemic arguments on talk pages
How can I know if anyone would object my argument or not? And according to the rules you referred to, Non-extended-confirmed editors may use the "Talk:" namespace to post constructive comments and make edit requests related to articles within the topic area, provided they are not disruptive.[41] Polemic ≠ disruptive. I took part in polemics after receiving warning[42] [43] from FireFrangledFeathers, was reported[44], warned again [45] yet, supported by FireFrangledFeathers themselves in multiple cases[46] [47]. Hew Folly (talk) 20:28, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
See, this is the kind of wikilawyering that is unlikely to persuade anyone to unban you. I believe that I have sufficiently explained the grounds for the sanction. Any further appeals should be made to WP:AE. signed, Rosguill talk 21:01, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
My thoughts match Rosguill's. It's very unlikely that an appeal based on these grounds will succeed, and it's likely that it would worsen the chances of a future appeal based on better ones. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 21:44, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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