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Why has the Africanized bee been placed in the Breed section, when the Russian honey bee remains in the subspecies section? Neither are Breeds nor Subspecies. If the previous section "Subspecies and Breeds" are going to be separated into two sections, one for Subspecies and another for Breeds, then doesn't it show more starkly that the sections contain bee designations that do not fall neatly into either Subspecies nor Breed? Bibby (talk) 19:20, 28 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
when a strain is made by humans then its a breed, when made through evolution its a subspecies. NahlaMaltija (talk) 09:49, 29 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Hi,
you have just made my point (even though I disagree with your definitions of the word "strain").
You are saying that a Strain is the same as a Breed (if made by humans) or a subspecies (if made by nature), I'm not going to argue this definition. But then why do you have Russian honey bee, Western honey bee and Honey bee race (a wiki page which I think should be deleted, but this isn't the place), all in the "Subspecies" section?
Wouldn't it be better for us to have one Section for "Subspecies, Breeds and Strains": It's not ideal, but that would be a fair compromise? What do you think? Bibby (talk) 14:49, 29 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The list needs reviewing so they are categorised accordingly. I advise separating the list, to distinguish between the two. Subspecies have also ecological value (besides the agricultural one) thus why it is important that we distinguish between the two, especially in view that they need to be conserved. They are threatened because of hybridization by imported breeds.
By strain, I just meant a variant. NahlaMaltija (talk) 17:27, 29 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I've reverted the Edit, but I've added Phenotype to the heading description for greater clarity and accuracy.
If you think it would be better to split this into three subsections, then you need to try and figure out which goes where and where are you going to put Western honey bee and Honey bee race. Bibby (talk) 22:52, 30 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
1) I would avoid putting phenotypes as there can be plenty, just a note about them should suffice
2) The Western honey bee is neither a breed nor a subspecies but it is actually the species - so it shouldn't be in the list
3) As I alluded earlier, I would sperate breeds from subspecies, as they are very different from each other and it is important they are not confused together especially in view of conservation. Regarding subspecies, we should also establish whether they should be listed by their common or scientific name. NahlaMaltija (talk) 16:16, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Hi,
1. I agree there are a lot of alleged phenotypes, but I am not aware of ones which have good sources to be cited on Wiki, and it's the best word to describe, eg: the Russian bee.
2. I agree, but if you remove it from that Section you're going to have to add it to another, and it's the best (least worst) section for them.
3. I understand your point about separation of breeds and subspecies, but then we would only have the Buckfast breed in the breed section, other non-subspecies, such as the Russian bee or the Africanized bee would fall in neither:
As for scientific (Latin) vs. common (which one?) names, I am very firmly of the opinion that Latin names should be used (for subspecies), otherwise in some cases confusion reigns, eg: in Ireland there are beekeepers that use the common name "Native Irish Bee", and think it is a subspecies of the A. m. mellifera! while it was actually imported from The Netherlands around 1923! The reason we have BOTH in the section is because it's the title of their Wiki pages which is used, in other words we would have to submit a request to change the name of the page... and then maybe go through changing the wiki links to the old name. Bibby (talk) 21:37, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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