User talk:Robminchin

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Hi sorry this message is a bit late, but i hope you find some of thinks useful. Theresa knott 14:42, 6 Nov 2003 (UTC)

---

For your information, Eton is actually part of the Unitary Authority of Windsor and Maidenhead, in Berkshire. The Buckinghamshire page was correct and has been reverted; the Eton College page was incorrect and has been amended. Graham  :) 17:34, 26 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Hi Robminchin, I noticed that you have previously edited the List of UK universities by endowment page. I personally find that the page is too cluttered and contains non-notable information, and consequently would like to remove some of the data. I would really appreciate any thoughts you have on the matter, please reply to me on the Talk page of the UK University Endowment page. EmyRussell (talk) 23:43, 19 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I've started a drive to get users to multi-license all of their contributions that they've made to either (1) all U.S. state, county, and city articles or (2) all articles, using the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike (CC-by-sa) v1.0 and v2.0 Licenses or into the public domain if they prefer. The CC-by-sa license is a true free documentation license that is similar to Wikipedia's license, the GFDL, but it allows other projects, such as WikiTravel, to use our articles. Since you are among the top 2000 Wikipedians by edits, I was wondering if you would be willing to multi-license all of your contributions or at minimum those on the geographic articles. Over 90% of people asked have agreed. For More Information:

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I edited your changes to Centaurus A/M83 Group in an attempt to integrate the material into the article better and make it seem less like a HIPASS/HIDEEP press release (see WP:COI). One of the things which I thought was way too technical for a general audience was the discussion on the neutral hydrogen luminosity function. Could you possibly rewrite this for the non-professional astronomer?

Also, I prefer using the PGC numbers versus the ESO numbers for galaxy identification. Neither seem to be preferable to each other or in common use, but the PGC numbers are easier to type into NED. Does this explain the use of PGC numbers in the article? Dr. Submillimeter 10:11, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I thought about this some more after writing you this message. From what I understand of Karachentsev's analysis, he assigns group membership based on whether the objects are gravitationally bound based on a careful analysis of distances and velocities (although he almost certainly lacks information on velocities perpendicular to the line of sight). Is your group simply assigning objects to galaxy groups based on distance? This may be worth discussing in more detail in the Centaurus A/M83 Group article. (I do mention similar things in some of the other articles that I have rewritten, such as the Sculptor Group article.)

Regarding the luminosity function: Wikipedia has a lot of defective astronomy articles. If you create an article on the astronomical luminosity function, I recommend using the title luminosity function (astronomy). If written well, this could be a useful reference for undergraduate and graduate astronomy students as well; most astronomy majors (and possibly a fraction of people with PhDs) have trouble with the concept.

Wikipedia has a reference on astronomical object names at Wikipedia:Naming conventions (astronomical objects). I wrote the sections on galaxies and galaxy groups. I am really not certain whether something would be more commonly identified by a PGC or ESO number. Could you cite a few examples from the literature? (I certainly know that Karachentsev's designations are not in common use.)

Finally, be careful of running afoul of Wikipedia:No original research. Removing or replacing bogus redshifts is OK (if you give a rationale on the talk page), but you will need to write a peer-reviewed paper before you can declare him wrong on Wikipedia.

Also, revision of the galaxy infobox templates is open for discussion. Just discuss it at Wikipedia Talk:WikiProject Astronomical objects first. Dr. Submillimeter 16:12, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Your rationale for using the ESO names makes sense. Could you add it to Wikipedia:Naming conventions (astronomical objects)? Also, line 4 in the galaxy naming conventions is vague, but it is needed to support the name of objects like Arp 220. A better-worded term would be acceptable, although 'Primary NED identification' might not work for some objects. NED sometimes gives a less well-known designation from a well-known catalog instead of a better-known identification from a less well-known catalog.

The problem with listing every galaxy that has been listed as part of a group in any reference is that the references produce some wildly contradictory results, partly because the hierarchical and percolation methods work very differently in some situations. (See the discussion on this in the Sombrero Galaxy article, for example.) I prefer listing objects which are frequently listed as group members in all catalogs of galaxy groups. The exceptions are the galaxy groups studied by Karachentsev et al., where they have performed some analyses to demonstrate that the objects are gravitationally bound. However, I do not think that it would be a problem identifying group members not identified by Karachentsev et al. in the articles for the nearby groups if it is handled properly. For objects that are only candidate members, listing them at the bottom of the tables seems appropriate. Objects that are definitely members should be listed in the tables, but these should be referenced with inline citations and a special note should be placed at the top of the table indicating that these objects with the inline citations are identified by groups other than Karachentsev et al. Does this seem like a way forward?

I myself would use (and indirectly have used) Karachentsev's results for research on nearby groups and disregard all catalogs for more distant groups (but not for clusters). It is fairly clear that group identification is still unreliable, especially in the direction of the Virgo Cluster. Dr. Submillimeter 08:03, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hi did you take this pic?Genisock2 16:19, 1 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thankyou for letting me know.Genisock2 (talk) 20:36, 11 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Good photo, well done! User:Seanjacksontc —Preceding comment was added at 20:28, 9 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The ranks are now incorrect. Jolly Ω Janner 23:32, 18 February 2017 (UTC) I think I fixed it. Jolly Ω Janner 23:42, 18 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Canada's most renowned publication for attorneys and legal practitioners:

"The JD is internationally regarded as indicating a second-entry professional degree program, unlike the LLB, which in most common law countries indicates a first-entry degree program with no post-secondary entrance requirements." ^[1]

Every single law school in Canada with a JD program describes the JD as being second entry and REQUIRES prior undergraduate education. ^{[2] [3] [4]}

Monahan added that the JD will be “a clearer reflection of the nature of the Osgoode degree,” particularly for international audiences who may not be familiar with the LLB and who may incorrectly think that an LLB is a first-entry degree.” ^[5]

“The Americans and Canadians, long ago we developed a very different model of legal education, one that’s a second-entry program,” he said. “The LL.B. programs in England and Australia are basically 18-year-olds just out of high school. Instead of studying English, philosophy or history, they’re just studying law, and it’s not a very sophisticated legal education. “The product that we offer is an entirely different product.” The second-entry professional program, like the one at Queen’s, is increasingly recognized internationally as a superior form of legal education. ^[6]

Take the MD. No one actually thinks the MD in Canada is a “bachelor’s degree.” It has baccalaureate standing in medical and academic settings because it is the “first” medical degree, although it is a "second-entry" program. — Preceding unsigned comment added by IcarusLivesX (talk • contribs) 15:12, 23 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

All you have to do is add the citations to the article, rather than trying to rely on a source that doesn't say it is second entry. This discussion would also be better held on the article's talk page. Robminchin (talk) 19:01, 23 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Saying that the JD is a bachelor's degree without qualifying it with the phrase "second entry" is deliberately misleading because it suggests that one can partake in JD studies immediately after high school without a bachelor's degree/undergraduate education. It is very much like saying to someone unfamiliar with Canada's education system, "the MD is a bachelor's degree," without further qualification. The only problem with this is that the bachelor's degree, in the traditional sense (as it is referred to in regular discourse), denotes a program undertaken immediately after high school. However, both the JD and MD are second-entry professional degrees that require prior undergraduate education.

I could refer to many, many more sources, but the above are just a few that one can access with a 5-second Google search: — Preceding unsigned comment added by IcarusLivesX (talk • contribs) 15:25, 23 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

If the only source cited doesn't say it is second entry, then you can't say it's second entry. Wikipedia is about verifiability Robminchin (talk) 19:03, 23 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

How are you doing? You undid a couple of editions I made. Just with the aim to clarify the situation, UNESCO offers the International Handbook of Universities for a free download (The link I provided)

• International Handbook of Universities 2017 IHU

There are 3 different options to buy the product in Amazon, and the free link that I published with the same content than 2 of the version available.

• UNESCO British Virgin Islands offer it on Amazon for $99
• Palgrave Macmillan For $769.03
• Amazon Kindle for 0.99
• International Handbook of Universities 2017 Free Download

Let me know if that is incorrect, since it is not my intention to cause any confussion, and I think students may have access to this material as soon as it is avaliable for free download legally. Taesulkim (talk) 22:44, 5 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

That something is freely available does not mean it is not linkspam, and the item in question is not being published by the UN agency UNESCO, but by another organisation using the same initials. Robminchin (talk) 02:37, 6 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I do not agree with you, and consider your actitute very unpolite to undid a revision, instead of discussing the issue in the talk page. Furthermore The International handbook its also available in WEBARCHIVE:ORG https://archive.org/details/INTERNATIONALHANDBOOK It does also supposed to be SPAM???

Taesulkim (talk) 14:32, 6 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Greetings and felicitations. I noticed that you reverted this edit to the London School of Economics, for the reason "Undo good faith edit that formatted numbers contrary to MOS:NUMERAL." I made that edit in accordance with an exception to MOS:NUMERAL—"155 nationalities" is at the beginning of the sentence (a point that might have been obscure because it is preceded by a reference). See WP:NUMNOTES' last bullet point:

* Avoid beginning a sentence with figures

Edit: My apologies, but I just edited a section above to keep its references within itself, rather than below this, the current last section on the page.— DocWatson42 (talk) 06:53, 1 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

You're right, DocWatson42, I had completely missed that it was the start of a sentence. Thanks. Robminchin (talk) 12:47, 1 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

You're welcome, and thank you. ^_^ —DocWatson42 (talk) 13:21, 1 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding your remark on the "consensus" on SP article, the problem is that the other user are obviously biased in favor of SP, desperately wanting to put clear advertisement in the article from the beginning. But if you are ok with something yourself, ok then. --Launebee (talk) 15:11, 12 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, what's your opinion on this? Thanks. --Launebee (talk) 10:51, 19 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I am constantly personally attacked in the SP edit summaries. Don't you think that IcarusLivesX is doing academic boosterism? I used the talk page but the user does not use it but personally attacks me, can't I do anything against this false attacks? --Launebee (talk) 15:48, 23 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I am afraid that the discussion is becoming a quagmire. Doctor is a title for scientists. A practitioner (medicine) is not a scientist so the title is not applicable. Only for practitioners ad the university which also "practice" science the title should be allowed. There is a tendency to merge practicing and science but disasters are the future.

145.129.136.48 (talk) 10:23, 23 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Presumably this refers to the Doctor (title) article; I'm not sure which "discussion" you are talking about. I would note that: 1) Wikipedia says what the usage is or should be based on reliable sources, it does not (or should not, at least) give the personal opinions of the editors. 2) Doctor has never been a scientific title – as the article make clear it was first used for teachers of law and theology at the medieval universities, and many PhDs are awarded today in non-scientific fields. Robminchin (talk) 12:21, 23 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Robminchin,

Thank you for your reply. You are right "Wikipedia tries to depict (describe) things as they are". OK. But my objection is critic on reality. You are right that the title came down from theology. But at the beginning only the clergy was thought to be apt to schooling in "earthly" philosophy -> science. So I "think" that the title originated from that source. I thought theology originally only had a title "Master"? PhD is indeed a very "empty" honouration, sorry the word does not exist?

145.129.136.48 (talk) 20:04, 31 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

145.129.136.48 (talk) 13:57, 24 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Both "Doctor" and "Master" are from Latin words used to mean teacher, and were for a period used interchangeably. Doctor was first used in the mid 13th century to refer to those licenced to teach law at Bologna and those licenced to teach theology at Paris.

In Britain, the usage arose that "Master" was used for the lower faculties (eventually just arts) while "Doctor" was used for the higher (theology, law, medicine and music). It wasn't until the 19th century, with the introduction of new faculties, that the modern concept of a bachelor-master-doctor progression arose.

A doctor was therefore a learned scholar in their field, but the was no link to research particularly, which wasn't considered a core part of the mission of a university until the Humboldtian model of higher education arose in Germany in the early 19th century (although some university fellows and professors, such as Newton and Hooke, obviously did carry out research, there was no general expectation of this).

The modern PhD arose alongside the Humboldtian model. ("Philosophy" was the general faculty in Germany, like Arts in Britain.) The PhD spread from Germany to the US in the later 19th century then to Britain in the early 20th century. Before this, Britain had introduced what are now known as higher research doctorates in the late 19th century, which gradually replaced the older doctorates given purely for scholarship.

It was also in the 19th century that US universities adopted the MD as the initial medical degree, giving physicians the title of doctor. In the UK there was a long debate through the 19th century about the use of the title by physicians who weren't MDs (which I wrote up in the Doctor (title) article), the end result of which was an acceptance that physicians could use "doctor" as a courtesy title even if they didn't hold a doctorate.

The linking of the doctorate with research is, then, an idea dating from the 19th century, the same as the courtesy use of the title by British physicians and the adoption of the MD as the universal qualification for American physicians. In terms of use of the title, it is not therefore possible to truly establish precedence for either scientists or medical practitioners – the academic title predates both by around six centuries – although it is certainly the case that the US is out of step with the rest of the modern world in its use of professional doctorates for non-research degrees. Robminchin (talk) 16:26, 24 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Hallo Robminchin,

I am very grateful and obliged for your extensive answer. It are facts. What I had in mind was that in the Netherlands a "student" is only allowed to have the title Doctor after passing successful the "comprehensive examination". I see this is not general. My objection to passing that title to a physician is that the course for physicians on the university has not the main intention to make the student a scientist?? Only the physician who beside his main occupation also practice science should be allowed (after above) to have the title Doctor??

Regards. 145.129.136.48 (talk) 18:18, 3 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The practice varies between countries - it is normal in English-speaking countries for medical practitioners to have the title "Doctor". In theory, Germany restricts the title to those who do a research thesis, but the Dr. Med. degree has become somewhat devalued. It should be remembered that Dr is also used outside of the sciences, for people who gain PhDs in the arts and humanities, for example - it has never been a purely scientific title. In some countries, such as France and the US, it is the scientists who are having the fight for the right to use the title of Doctor, which most people associate with medical practitioners. It might have been better to have had different titles for PhDs and physicians, but it is probably too late for that now. Robminchin (talk) 01:13, 6 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, I think what you say is true. My chief concern is the proceeding marriage (merger?) of medicine with science. The have totally different roots and should politely keep distance. But perhaps you're right that it is too late and we (I?) can only check (?) in sorrow (to whatever it may lead).

145.129.136.48 (talk) 12:51, 7 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Only one last remark: Doctor is an conception originating in a religious context. It is "hazardous" to export it. 145.129.136.48 (talk) 20:06, 31 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

This is in reference to your reversion of my removal of what I took to be probable vandalism—a reference to "dr. phil." as an abbreviation of the degree title—in the abovementioned article. You state (correctly as of 02:26 UTC, 13 July 2017) that this is attested to in the body of the article. However, there does not appear to be any citation supporting this assertion in the body of the article. Please clarify. Trumpet marietta 45750 (talk) 02:29, 13 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Trumpet marietta 45750:, I assume it was considered well enough known by the editor who put it in the body not to need an explicit citation. I've now added one. Robminchin (talk) 03:04, 13 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Robminchin,

Thank you for your message.

My link was about the position of Professor Freeman Dyson, IAS in Princeton, on the PhD.

See for example :

http://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2014/04/01/freeman_dyson_on_the_phd_degree

What do you think about this ?

Best regards,

Academy of Philosophy

Academy of Philosophy (talk) 07:46, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Academy of Philosophy,

There is content here that could be summarised in the "Value and criticism" section of the article. It doesn't warrant a "See also" link to Dyson – that section is for related pages, not pages about people who have commented on the PhD. Including a link to the article on Dyson as part of a summary of his views in the "Value and criticism" section would be much more appropriate.

Cheers,

Robminchin (talk) 12:54, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Robminchin,

Thank you for your advice.

Best regards,

Academy of Philosophy

Academy of Philosophy (talk) 00:10, 30 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

First, my apologies for revising your edit without a comment. I am still figuring out how to use Wikipedia and thought I had left a comment. I obviously made a mistake.

I reached out to the Registrar's office at Georgetown University Law School, and they have confirmed by email that Juris Doctorem or Juris Doctor are appropriate designations for their degree, one being in Latin and the other its English translation. I can scan the email into a PDF format, but don't know how to then place it somewhere that can be verified. Can you help me with that process? I also have a picture of the portion of my diploma, which provides the name of the degree (actually, the entire diploma is in Latin, except for my name (they stopped translating student names into Latin in the 1960's). Law School Prof (talk) 21:18, 31 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for reaching out. I can't think of a way of placing an email somewhere that can be verified. The picture of the portion of the degree certificate could be uploaded and inserted as an image into the page. Robminchin (talk) 07:38, 2 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Hi there, I have been following the discussions in the UCL Talk page, and I would just like to commend you for not falling for the inappropriate personal attacks you have been receiving. Thank you for continuing to follow through the Wikipedia policies and maintaining its encyclopaedic standards. Please continue the great work! EmyRussell (talk) 02:46, 15 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! Robminchin (talk) 03:04, 15 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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I don't understand how you got "✓" into this edit and two "§"'s into this one, but however it happened it's causing errors. If you understand how it came about I'd be genuinely curious to hear it, because it's really odd. Either way, if you can avoid it in future, that'd be appreciated. › Mortee _talk 14:12, 21 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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Your edit removed Durham as a university that has "teaching within some colleges", suggesting that Durham has teaching in none of its colleges. The former is more accurate because there is in-college teaching at St John's College (Cranmer Hall). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.201.254.113 (talk) 04:54, 7 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@118.201.254.113: While there is teaching in Cranmer Hall, this is on ordination courses. There is no teaching on Durham University courses in the colleges, which is what is relevant here. Robminchin (talk) 20:45, 7 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks so much for revising the Russell Group page. I went ahead and slotted in the British Ivy terminology with solid sourcing. Also, for the sake of specificity, rather than vaguely stating "dispute," I added the core of the source's issue. Mainly, the production of widely perceived superior outcomes from six programs outside of RG, over the bottom quarter of the group itself. Please feel free to punch it up even more. When the specific critique occupies roughly the same amount of ink, it's often a bit more convenient. Thanks again! Wikipedite (talk) 11:57, 16 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Please discuss this on the talk page of the article. 8 have opened a discussion there. Robminchin (talk) 04:33, 19 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

		The Original Barnstar
		To show appreciation for noteworthy contributions to Imperial College London § History Shadowssettle(talk) 18:16, 24 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Feel free to place it where you want, or delete it if you don't know where to put it Shadowssettle_(talk) 18:16, 24 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Hi,

I recently noticed that you have reverted my edit in the section "Canada" despite proper citation. May I get to know the reason? ABCDE22 (talk) 12:50, 26 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

You don't need to reply to this messege as I have added new info with ref which clear both of our concern. Plz check and let me know if you think any new improvement are required. ABCDE22 (talk) 17:08, 26 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Robminchin,

I noticed that you've reverted edits on the page Bachelor's Degree by another user. That user has continued to repeat the same behaviour, and so I have raised the issue on its talk page, and was wondering if you wanted to chip in. Shadowssettle_(talk) 19:12, 10 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

If you were so concerned that the article was written in UK English, it is a pity your concern ended before the 2nd paragraph, "Examples of honours degree include the honors bachelor's degree in the United States"... as such, making the edit consistent. 82.14.227.91 (talk) 11:01, 23 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The "honors bachelor's degree" there is referring specifically to the name of the US degree, so is spelt correctly. The names of honours degree in various countries have now been italicised as per MOS:WAW to make this clearer. And yes, I believe we should follow Wikipedia's manual of style with regards to national varieties of English. Feel free to propose a change to the MOS if you don't like it. Robminchin (talk) 11:19, 23 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

As to my liking it or not, I don't think that is the issue. I would imagine readers would be keen to avoid a repeat of the article, Data center, in which three citations have been provided simply for this distinction, demonstrating just how ridiculous the issue appears to have become. Personally, I couldn't give a rat's ass. 82.14.227.91 (talk) 15:53, 23 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The situation at data center sounds foolish; there is no need for such citations. The Wikipedia Manual of Style actually has very clear guidelines and this should have been worked out on their talk page. The honours degree page is clearly labelled as being in British English (correctly, as the article is primarily about degrees in Britain and the Commonwealth), so all content on that page should follow British spelling. Robminchin (talk) 00:05, 24 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Per Wikipedia:Notability_(people)#Lists_of_people, we don't add names to residents/alumni lists unless they are notable; typically, the subject will already have an article in Wikipedia written about them, or in some cases, an article does not exists but the subject clearly meets WP:BIO notability (i.e., CEO or founder of notable company, Olympic athlete, dean of a university, etc). OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 23:39, 4 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Robminchin, I was wondering if you could take a look at the Infobox UK university rankings template: Italic or bold markup not allowed in: |work= is that meant to be in the template? Thank you for your time. Lotje (talk) 16:26, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Hello, hope everything's well all things considered. There is currently a neutrality dispute on Imperial College Business School (talk), and I was hoping to form a consensus. As you've been on WP:UNI/WP:HED for a while now (at least I've run into you quite a bit) I thought you might have something to add on the matter. I am adding this to your talk page since my previous attempts to just message WT:HED for previous discussions haven't had much attention. Shadowssettle_(talk) 09:23, 9 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry I don't know what happened there with all the styling issues. I edit conflicted with you (your changes started after I opened the editor) and I guess I messed something up trying to fix it. Many apologies. I would've fixed it straight away but got pulled away straight after the edit; I must remember to check the preview more carefully. Shadowssettle_(talk) 18:55, 10 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Shadowsettle: no problem – it was a fairly simple task of replacing the html entities with the real characters. Robminchin (talk) 01:38, 11 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

A discussion which may be relevant to you is currently taking place on WT:HED (section) on the wider picture of WP:BOOSTERISM across university articles. Please see the relevant section if you wish to contribute, as any consensus made there may end up impacting articles you have contributed to (such as Imperial College Business School and Imperial College London), and it would be sensible to get involved earlier rather than going through any discussion it again if it affects those pages. Your views and input would be most welcome! Shadowssettle_(talk) 15:42, 12 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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