Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Professional wrestling

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According to this edit, we don't need citations for entries like video games. Also if you look at the articles of most actors and musicians, you see there are no cited sources for their filmography section; e.g. films, television series, video games, music videos, and etc. For example, see Jason Statham. I think we should follow the same pattern for WP:PW articles. Your thoughts? --Mann Mann (talk) 07:56, 5 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Disagree in the case of WWE wrestlers. Their video games pass the notability test so edits like the one you pointed out are correct (it was done on the Alexa Bliss page as well). Smaller players like Statham on the other hand needs a second look - but there should not be a general rule like what you are appearing to suggest. Addicted4517 (talk) 23:43, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Statham is just an example. My point is if there is a specific guideline about other media, we should follow it. If they don't need citation, then there is no need to make our articles bloated with unnecessary refs. --Mann Mann (talk) 01:40, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Absolute nonsense that we "don't need citations" Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:42, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Who said that?! You did not get my point. See the above diff again. I said if those notable media are citation themselves and there is a guideline about it, then we don't need WP:OVERCITE. That's all. --Mann Mann (talk) 03:23, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Input from experienced project members would be welcome in the discussion at Talk:Jason Knight (wrestler) § Birth date, birth name. Chris Troutman (talk) 19:06, 14 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Your edit summary for adding this thread to this Project talk page stated "this is of interest to the outlaw garbage-wrestling indy mudshow fans".

If you're trying to genuinely encourage interest in this topic, that language isn't helpful or productive. I would hope you were saying it in jest, but we have no way of actually knowing that, particularly as there are many people online who use that negative language with complete sincerity. CeltBrowne (talk) 23:39, 14 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As a member of the cult of Cornette, I think my depiction is accurate to the state of the wrestling involved. Perhaps you are one of those fans of that sort of wrestling. Chris Troutman (talk) 01:56, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

you commented there, so what I posted was sucessful

It worked in spite of what you said, not because of it. This is Wikipedia, WP:NOTAFORUM, and posting things just to antagonise people is admonishable. CeltBrowne (talk) 06:47, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, I genuinely mixed up the two. I saw "wrestler", thought "wasn't there a discussion at ... WT:MMA some time ago ...^[2021] looks good, let's ask here." I'm thankful for Chris troutman copying my request to the right location, and now that I had a look at the difference between MMA and professional wrestling, I also understand why mixing these up is upsetting especially to MMA fans. I guess it's a common mistake and that makes it more annoying. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 01:25, 16 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@ToBeFree, what's common about it? It says "professional wrestler." If the subject was a mixed martial artist, it would say that. Saying it's common is an excuse. Mr. C.C.^{Hey yo!}_{I didn't do it!} 15:35, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

ROH has renamed its Ring of Honor Wrestling TV show to ROH on HonorClub since March 2023. Reliable sources also use this new name; e.g. [1][2]. So which one is preferred? Ring of Honor Wrestling or ROH on HonorClub? Does HonorClub sound promotional? --Mann Mann (talk) 15:48, 23 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Mann Mann, ROH hasn't had a TV deal since it was purchased by Tony Khan. That's when Honor Club was relaunched just without any tiers. In March 2023. Honor Club is like WWE Network, a subscription service. It's still Ring of Honor Wrestling, but it's also known as ROH Honor Club TV. It's also shortened to ROH on Honor Club, ROH Wrestling TV, and ROH TV. If you see any of the others names in sources, it still Ring of Honor Wrestling unless ROH officially changes it to ROH Honor Club TV. Articles have other names shows, movies, albums, etc. are known as. Plus, it's been Ring of Honor Wrestling since the show started on HDnet in 2009. Just leave it as is. Mr. C.C.^{Hey yo!}_{I didn't do it!} 15:23, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Mr. C.C.: So as you say, Ring of Honor Wrestling is fine for post-March 2023 ROH TV stuff. For example, see Hikaru Shida:

• A. Shida made her Ring of Honor (ROH) debut on the March 14, 2024 episode of Ring of Honor Wrestling, where she answered ROH Women's World Champion Athena's open challenge for the title at Supercard of Honor.
• B. Shida made her Ring of Honor (ROH) debut on the March 14, 2024 episode of ROH on HonorClub, where she answered ROH Women's World Champion Athena's open challenge for the title at Supercard of Honor.

A is preferred to B, right? --Mann Mann (talk) 02:09, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Mann Mann, correct. You wouldn't say ROH on HDNet when they were on that network. It was Ring of Honor Wrestling. HDNet was just where they aired like HonorClub. It's just where it airs. You wouldn't say AEW Dynamite on TBS or Monday Night Raw on USA and won't say Monday Night Raw on Netflix, you wouldn't do it for Ring of Honor Wrestling. Mr. C.C.^{Hey yo!}_{I didn't do it!} 02:25, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Agree. The main reason why I opened this discussion was this edit using "ROH on HonorClub". Then I changed it to "Ring of Honor Wrestling". I was not sure about it. --Mann Mann (talk) 07:48, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Well, that is our current title for the TV series article, so it is appropriate to use. It doesn't help that the promotion, either before TK's purchase or now, makes little distinction between the promotion's and the series' names. Both the Sinclair era logos and the current logo are used for both the promotion and the series, with the Sinclair logos including "Wrestling" while the TK-era logo omits it. If anything, I'd almost say our differentiation of the article titles is not particularly well-founded and a discussion of the TV series article title is warranted. It probably should be at Ring of Honor (TV series). oknazevad (talk) 15:23, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Good point. In my opinion, Tony Khan's ROH is just AEW Dark/Elevation; same format and booking with a few modifications and using ROH brand. Maybe that's why there is nothing special about the current ROH and its show. --Mann Mann (talk) 16:12, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Roxanne beat Lyra, but they only added the title to her profile and to the list of Champs. The official title history has Lyra as Champ. Shouldn't we therefore edit the title history and grey out Roxanne's reign as unrecognized? WrestlingLegendAS (talk) 19:35, 6 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wait. Sometimes updates are delayed (not unusual for WWE website). It is WrestleMania season, you know. --Mann Mann (talk) 02:14, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

WWE.COM also had a video on their site explicitly calling her a two time champion [[3]] so it appears that any discrepancies with the title history page is likely a case of that page being in error since the facts appear to support this being an official reign.--67.70.101.200 (talk) 02:24, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I am conscious that our articles and templates imply a division between the AEW roster and ROH roster which doesn't seem to strictly exist in reality. Is there a case for merging these? McPhail (talk) 09:24, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah. Some wrestlers are under contract with ROH (some sources state that they signed with ROH or AEW/ROH). I agree to merge, since most of the roster is just AEW wrestlers. --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 09:48, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

ROH is the sister promotion of AEW. It's not a division/brand of AEW. The case of ROH and AEW is similar to World Wonder Ring Stardom and New Japan Pro-Wrestling. Another point is while Tony Khan's ROH is similar to AEW Dark/Elevation, it's not something like NXT and WWE. --Mann Mann (talk) 13:39, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

But is there anyone on the AEW roster that we can definitively say is not on the ROH roster, or vice versa? McPhail (talk) 14:07, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Agree, both promotions are independent, but owned by the same man, Tony Khan. ROH Roster includes many AEW wrestlers. I would agree with something like AEW wrestler usually appears on Tony Khan's owned promotion Ring of Honor". --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 14:41, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Two promotions = Two rosters. So each one of them needs its own list and template. I agree ROH roster feels like a derivation of AEW roster but it is what it is. --Mann Mann (talk) 05:47, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• I think we should treat them as separate promotions with rosters that overlap. It seems to be an intentional choice by Tony Khan to have an overlap, and trying eliminate the overlap by designating wrestlers as primarily AEW/ROH would involve too much original research. Pinguinn 🐧 06:53, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think it's right to have two separate rosters, as they are ultimately two separate promotions – they just have a lot of overlap. Perhaps a notice at the top of each roster saying there is flux would be good. For example at the top of the ROH roster, something like "ROH personnel often make appearances for All Elite Wrestling, as both companies are owned by Tony Khan." — Czello ^(music) 11:27, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Shazza McKenzie's article has been nominated for deletion. The input of members of WikiProject Professional wrestling is appreciated in the discussion of whether or not it should be deleted. CeltBrowne (talk) 10:59, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]