User talk:Bruxton

Since the image and this hook present in this diff [1] was moved to a different prep area and Clover Point did have an image in the DYK nom, do you think it could fill in for the now non-existent image? Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 17:20, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Clovermoss: It looks like that prep (prep 3) had a special occasion hook for the image slot. We could move it to prep 4. The image looks to be properly licensed. Bruxton (talk) 18:48, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I went ahead and moved it Template:Did you know/Preparation area 4. I think it is an interesting article and image. Bruxton (talk) 18:56, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Clovermoss: I am sorry, my edit was undone. You can try to petition to promotor who undid my edit if you like. I did enjoy the image and article and again, I am sorry. Bruxton (talk) 19:50, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Okay. I disagree with what AirshipJungleman29 said about it being a dull image. [2] Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 21:56, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Apologies Clovermoss, but I've been doing a lot of prep rejigging today, especially on image hooks. I felt that the Clover Point image was a rather generic coastline photo. Maybe I'm biased (I have seen a lot of coastlines), but DYK receives between twice and three times as many image noms as it can fit, so the majority have to run without. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 22:02, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@AirshipJungleman29: I realize that not every hook can run with an image but we're back to none being in the prep area again. I disagree with your assessment that it is a "generic" photo. Rereading Template:Did you know nominations/Clover Point, the reviewer explicitly mentioned that "the picture is freely licensed and works in a small format." There hasn't been anything like it in DYK in awhile so I think depicting it would be good for variety as well. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 22:06, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Clovermoss, we are back to no image being in the prep area because I am in the middle of rejigging the prep sets. The picture being freely licensed and working in a small format is the basic requirement for images—if it did not do either of those two things, it would not have been approved at all. Jenny Hurn, another water-related geographical feature, is the image hook of the set four in advance (three in advance until earlier today). As a prep-builder, I have had to make value judgements for almost 1,300 promotions. The image hook receives by far the most attention, so I try to give it to the most interesting and varied hooks and images. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 22:17, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@AirshipJungleman29: As I said, I was simply disagreeing with your decision here (as was Bruxton). I'm not saying you can't make that call, I know what editorial judgement is. I didn't see Jenny Hurn but my anecdotal experience has been that DYK images are mostly people and buildings. I still stand by my statements. You are free to disagree with them and I doubt that you will change your mind but I wanted to make my concerns known. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 22:28, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the conversation. Apologies, Bruxton, for taking over your talk page. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 22:33, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Clovermoss I too have promoted 1,300 hooks but AirshipJungleman29. I see there is a rock climbing hook in the lead slot and it is entirely subjective over what is interesting but the rock does not interest me. We actually just ran a rock climbing hook 8 days ago Dreamtime (climb). The revert said making way for a biography, but it is clearly not a biography. The last thing I want is an edit war so I ask that if AirshipJungleman29 disagrees with my action to place this hook in the lead again, go to WT:DYK to get consensus rather than undo my promotion. Bruxton (talk) 00:27, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A shame. I suspect you'd have to go back years to find the last time something from Pakistan was featured in the image hook, if ever, while the last Canadian image hook was five days ago. WP:BIAS at work. Still, no reason to edit war—and thanks for pinging me Bruxton. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 00:38, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

AirshipJungleman29 It is subjective but if you want the rock in the lead, we can save that hook for a subsequent set. I thought about doing that here but this hook has moved three times already. Bruxton (talk) 00:44, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think that is a good idea—developing countries are vastly underrepresented at the image hook for obvious reasons, so I try to fit those images in where possible. I'll have a look tonorrow, and maybe have a dig through the archives to find the last Pakistani lead hook. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 00:53, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There's broader discussions to be had about geographical bias on Wikipedia but I'm unsure of what a single Canadian dyk hook/image has to do with this. I'm generally all for increased attention to content everywhere and I talk about geographic imbalance more than I do the gender gap. A lot of Canadian content sucks, is non-existent or completely outdated but I realize that other countries have it much worse when it comes to coverage. Thebiguglyalien does a lot of work I admire on that front. That said, AirshipJungleman29, is there a way to see all past DYK nominations? I doubt that there's never been an image from Pakistan ever featured but it'd be useful to have some concrete facts to work with here. I think it'd be an interesting side project to work on. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 00:49, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As far as I'm aware, the only way is to search the archives. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 00:55, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, I wasn't aware if there was a page like that specifically for DYK. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 01:07, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Correction: a quick petscan shows the last WikiProject Pakistan nomination to be an image hook, Priest-king (sculpture), to have run on 16 June 2021, over three years ago. Before that, it was We Are Displaced, on 16 March 2019, two years previously. In the past five years, we have run a total of 37 Pakistan hooks and at least 414 Canada hooks. "a single dyk hook/image" is clearly something rather insignificant where Canada is concerned—for a country with six times the population, it is rather more special. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 01:19, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm unsure how petscans work and what I had in mind was a more manual assessment. Anyways, I made the single dyk hook comment because it seems odd to me to make this specific example the one to go off of unless you were trying to replace the hook with something that was related to Pakistan. As far as I can tell, this doesn't seem to be the case? I could be wrong. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 01:57, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

To be fair, the rock hook is not a Pakistan hook, the DYK nominated article is Aid climbing. I am sure we can improve regarding our bias and to be sure of "Pakistan-related", one would have to click on every previous main article since some hooks do not use the word. Bruxton (talk) 02:08, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm okay with the hook being switched if that's what's best. I like Clover Point but I can live if it doesn't show up with an image on DYK. I have some important IRL stuff going on right now so I might be less available for extended back and forth. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 03:51, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think we are ok with letting Clover Point run. I will close this discussion now. Bruxton (talk) 03:55, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]