Template talk:Multi-Doctor stories

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Shouldn't Trial of a Time Lord be included in this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.246.48.79 (talk) 23:25, 24 November 2013‎

No. --Redrose64 (talk) 00:30, 25 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Do short stories get included in these? For example, "Five Card Draw" from Short Trips: Zodiac has five versions of the Doctor coming together. Andrei Iosifovich (talk) 02:46, 18 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Should this really be in? The future Doctor (implied to be the Ninth) is only mentioned and does not actually present during the events of the story. Dunarc (talk) 16:32, 8 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

It's a long time since I've listened to it, but I think The Kingmaker is here because of Jon Culshaw's appearance as the Fourth Doctor rather than due to the Eccleston references. —Flax5 16:51, 8 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Good point. That makes more sense, although it is a tiny cameo.Dunarc (talk) 22:01, 8 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest adding a separate category that lists episodes where multiple incarnations of the Doctor appear but are not central to the story.

In my opinion, calling the template "Multi-Doctor stories" suggests that they're episodes focused on multiple Doctors teaming up. But episodes like 'Deep Breath', 'Listen' and 'The Doctor Falls' include only minor and/or cameo appearances of other incarnations. However, with the debatable exception of 'Listen', these appearances are not central to the episode's main plot. By the logic of this system, every regeneration story should be counted as a multi-Doctor story because they involve a brief appearance of another incarnation of the Doctor at the end. But, indeed, we have a separate category for regeneration stories. I agree these should be included as stories with multiple Doctors, but I think including them alongside 'The Five Doctors' and 'The Day of the Doctor' - which have multiple incarnations getting involved with the central storyline - is misleading.

Not trying to start an argument, this is just my opinion. But it seems like a distinction between Multi-Doctor Stories and Minor Appearances could be made. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.73.146.91 (talk) 22:39, 3 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest that Journey's End should be included in the main category for this topic instead of in the See Also section. The reason for this being that the Meta Crisis Doctor introduced in this episode is a separate incarnation of the Doctor. It is established in Time of the Doctor that the regeneration at the end of The Stolen Earth does indeed count as a full regeneration when it is siphoned off in Journey's End, and counts to the Doctor's regeneration limit. This means that the Meta Crisis Doctor is the result of a full regeneration, thereby making him a different version of the Doctor. As Meta Crisis and 10 share the screen, this makes it a multi doctor episode. Additionally, official merchandise refers to Meta Crisis as his own incarnation. Joseph2047 (talk) 10:39, 4 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Good job on starting a discussion. Do you have reliable secondary sources to back up your position, per Wikipedia's policies on sourcing content? -- Alex_21 _TALK 21:15, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Here are some items created to tie into the 60th anniversary:

https://forbiddenplanet.com/393053-doctor-who-the-60th-anniversary-diamond-collection-sweatshirt-the-meta-crisis-doctor/

https://forbiddenplanet.com/393052-doctor-who-the-60th-anniversary-diamond-collection-womens-fit-t-shirt-the-meta-crisis-doctor/

https://forbiddenplanet.com/399108-doctor-who-the-60th-anniversary-diamond-collection-postcard-set-celebration-set-2/ Joseph2047 (talk) 21:16, 16 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment You would need to start with a direct quote from something like Doctor Who Magazine or the Radio Times, etc. DonQuixote (talk) 21:31, 16 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I am suggesting moving The Reality War to the Different incarnations' Minor instances section. I placed it in this section before but its been moved to its current position based on other users' view of what Minor means. I believe it belongs here because the surprise appearance of 13 in a 15 Doctor episode for one 3-min scene should not count as a major instant (instant being the replacement word for 'Appearance' as used in other DW templates as it makes for grammatical sense here).

The episode itself is also not a major Multi-Doctor story like The Day of the Doctor or Twice Upon a Time. And if this counts as a major instance, then shouldn't the episode in the 13 Doctor stories template be moved too? Bigwhofan (talk) 22:29 10 June 2024 (BST)

Let's consider the inclusion of all of the minor instances:

• "The Name of the Doctor" – A cameo at the end that last some seconds.
• "Deep Breath" – A phone call where neither Doctor met.
• "Listen" – A child version that's not even properly seen.
• "The Witch's Familiar" – A flashback episode. There are no two actual versions of the Doctor.
• "The Doctor Falls" – A cameo at the very end of the episode that lasts some seconds.
• "The Timeless Children" – A hologram of another version of the Doctor. There are no two actual versions of the Doctor.
• "Once, Upon Time" – A version of the Doctor as seen through memories. There are no two actual versions of the Doctor.
• "The Story & the Engine" – A five-second change of face to relieve a memory. There are no two actual versions of the Doctor.

Now, every episode listed under Major instances includes the Doctors having substantial meetings and discussions. "The Reality War" conforms with this; there was a substantial meeting and discussion between two incarnations of the Doctor; it was not seconds-long cameo or unseen flashback. None of the minor instances give an example where the alternate Doctor is there substantially. To be honest, it's more between Minor and Major, but we don't have a third category for that, so I support Major, given the elimination of Minor based on its meaning and examples. -- Alex_21 _TALK 23:30, 10 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

As for {{Thirteenth Doctor stories}}, I have renamed that label to "Other appearances". -- Alex_21 _TALK 23:48, 10 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Your notes are interesting, but I believe the point of major and minor should mean more the amount of screen time, not story relevance or context (and in this case 13 and 15's meeting had little bearing on the rest of the episode). These templates should be simplified for a general Wikipedia audience, not just ones who know Doctor Who canon. Saying 13 and 15's meeting was a major instance would be misleading and make users who haven;t seen the episode think this is a proper multi-Doctor story when in fact that isn't the case - that's like calling "The Pandorica Opens" / "The Big Bang" a Dalek story when their appearances were brief in the main bulk of the story. Bigwhofan (talk) 03:15 11 June 2024 (BST)

The problem with that view is you're easily crossing over into a problem of WP:OR. It could be said, that if you base it on the bearing of the story that "Deep Breath" would be a major instance, because without it Clara would have left the Doctor, affecting the entire series arc. TheDoctorWho (talk) 02:46, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with TDW, that's just deciding based on personal beliefs. If we did indeed stick with how the point of major and minor should mean more the amount of screen time, then out of all of the minor instances, Thirteen and Fifteen meeting would actually count as the most screen time meeting between two physical Doctors, thus supporting that it's a major appearance. -- Alex_21 _TALK 04:33, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Well Deep Breath in minor because the instance of 2 Doctors in 1 story only occurred for a small portion of the episode right? Exactly like The Reality War, it was a big deal 13 and 15 meeting yes but it doesn't matter if they met or not, this episode isn't what you'd call a proper (major) Multi-Doctor story as the main plot only/mainly featured 1 Doctor. And for instance, if 2 Doctors appeared on-screen throughout an episode in different scenes and never actually met/appeared on-screen together for the entire episode, we'd still call that a Multi-Doctor story right? Because it was a prominent element to the episode.Bigwhofan (talk) 16:52 14 June 2024 (BST)

No, "Deep Breath" is minor because they never met and took up a minor part of the episode. If two Doctors appeared on-screen throughout an episode in different scenes and never actually met/appeared, then only one of those criteria would have been met (they never met / took up a minor part of the episode), thus making it Major. In "The Reality War", only one of those criteria were met (they never met / took up a minor part of the episode), thus making it Major. I feel like that explains the difference between the episodes pretty sufficiently. -- Alex_21 _TALK 23:57, 14 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]