Template talk:Swedish communism

I propose not to use the image File:SwedishCommunism.png in the template. It is an entirely fictional symbol, which has never been in use by any political organization in Sweden. In fact, the hammer and sickle has been used much less in the Swedish communist movement compared to the situation in other countries. The red flag is a far more representative image of the Swedish communist movement, as plain red flags have been used throughout its history by all tendencies. --Soman (talk) 14:40, 13 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately, you don't propose, but just remove. File:SwedishCommunism.png is not intended to represent any specific Swedish communist party symbol, but to illustrate that this template is specifically about communism in Sweden. The hammer and sickle has always been in use in Swedish communist circles, and is nowadays used by Communist Party (Sweden) for instance. A star with the hammer and sickle is also the symbol used in the Template:Communist Parties, so using it in this template is consistent with that. The red flag is used in Wikipedia to signify socialism in general, and the plain red flag was for a long time very popular during demonstrations arranged by the Swedish Social Democrat party, so it's not specifically a communist symbol. Thomas Blomberg (talk) 11:01, 16 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The fact that the red flag is not a specifically a communist symbol is not a problem in this case, the usage of a symbol in a template doesn't have to imply that the symbol is only identified with one subject or that it is the only symbol for that subject. The Communist Party of Sweden used red flags throughout its history, and the red flag is thus a representive symbol.

I would like to repeat my point regarding the differences in symbols between Sweden. The Communist Party of Sweden did use a hammer and sickle in star symbol prior during the Comintern years, but that was prior to the mass usage of modern logos. In the post-war year it had a cog-wheel and wreath symbol (identical to the symbol used by APK/SKP later, [[:File:Communist Party of Sweden.png). VPK used the carnation or just the letters 'VPK' as its symbol. The KP(mlr) uses the hammer and sickle, (File:Kommunistiska Partiet.svg), but far more discreetly than many other contemporary M-L parties. --Soman (talk) 11:28, 16 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I propose that the year for SKP/VPK be put as '1921-1990'. In 1921 is the year the party began implementing the 21 thesis, and become a full-fledged communist party. That was a culmination of a longer process. The entry in ComIntern was one milestone along the road in that process, but by no means the decisive moment. --Soman (talk) 14:43, 13 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The fact that SSV was a founding member of the Comintern in 1919 can definitely be regarded as the starting year for SSV/SKP/VKP as a communist party. The 21 conditions for membership were adopted by Comintern in 1920, so obviously no party could have adopted them before then. Existing member parties that adopted them, thus confirmed their views, while parties that rejected them left the Comintern. If the date of adoption of the conditions is to be regarded the date a party became communist, not even the Communist Party of the Soviet Union became communist until after the 2nd World Congress of the Comintern. I'll revert it back to 1919. Thomas Blomberg (talk) 11:01, 16 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

That's too simplistic and factually incorrect in some points. The process that took place in SSV 1917-1921 had a different pace in the Russian Bolshevik Party. Leninist principles were introduced there earlier than in parties like SSV. The point is that the transformation of SSV from a broad, left-socialist party into a communist party is a complex one, and one could argue that 1917 was the defining year. Or 1918. Or 1920, depending on the benchmark. 1921 is the year that the mutation of the party was completed and thus the relevant date to put in the template. --Soman (talk) 11:17, 16 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]