User talk:Joseph A. Spadaro

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Yes, it has been a while. My break didn't last long, or you could say it's not absolute. I couldn't believe the troubles I see reflected on your talk page. I know you to be reasonable, and I reviewed the circumstances of the conversation which led to your block. Needless to say I was a bit disenchanted. You, like me, appear to be a strong advocate for your side of a debate. While not unwilling to listen to an opposing view, you are not swayed unless the argument is particularly strong, and sound. The funny thing is I remember working differences with you, and found the debate quite refreshing. I think we both accepted parts of the others valid considerations and moved forward with good intentions.

There is another irony. I just had an RfA and got hammered because of this similar tendency. The irony gets even deeper when you realize that I stated the Cheshire Connecticut article as a proud accomplishment and my reason for stating that was because I was proud of the collaboration which achieved the result. I had already decided I wasn't going to take undue credit for what was a joint effort by several players. My first protagonist was intent to make me compare my efforts to others. Here is a quote: "I want to know how much he did versus Joseph Spadaro" I held my ground, got the shit kicked out of me and if I would have been gone it would be the RfA that took me out.

Yes it is an irony of ironies that you should have messaged me when you did. And I don't mind telling you that you, or me, will not be appreciated much; Because many in authority want to tell you how to think and expect that you will follow. I think you would enjoy seeing me destroyed by the bullshit, and the ironic part is it started because I didn't want to play the comparison game. Good talking to you again. For context here is my RfA, Find within my stated accomplishments "Cheshire, Connecticut, home invasion murders is a collaboration of which I am most proud. It really is a textbook example of people coming together from different walks, to collaborate on a high profile story that deserved the benefit of a proper telling. Even when you review the talkpages you can see dispute resolution and cooperation which manifest in a pretty good telling of a particularly hard story to tell" and know that it was you I had in mind when writing that. And you can search your name to see how I was hounded to define further my involvement. And that I stuck to my original statement of the cited collaboration.

It is a very terrible aspect of Wikipedia that if two people oppose in views, one has to be the bad guy. And there seems to be a tendency for it to be pinned on the one who makes the better argument. Anyway, I respect your manner and feel shame that your were blocked until you were made to say those pithy words. That you wouldn't do it again. My strong advice is, to not do it again, but for a different reason. Some minds are so thick, it truly is a waste of your own effort to form the good argument. So my friend, let's both endeavor to remain sane during these insane times. And do know there is a larger irony in play. Cheers My76Strat (talk) 23:49, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, there, my friend! I apologize that my response to your above post has been so delayed. But, I am the type who would rather respond fully and deliberately (albeit, perhaps, belatedly) versus just sending off a quick response that is not, err, particularly responsive. If you know what I mean. Thanks for the kind words above. I do appreciate them. I must admit, the ironies (and layers upon layers of further irony) did not escape me. It was really quite bizarre that I had messaged you only an hour or so after you decided to retire. (What are the odds of that?) Well, I am glad that you came back and that your retirement was short-lived! I agree with what you posted above in your Talk Page message to me. We seem to be cut from the same cloth. I am a lawyer by trade, and very left-brained, to boot. (And an Aries, at that!) (And a middle child by birth order!) For those not in the know ... this is a lethal combination ... which all means that I do cogitate over arguments. I am quite deliberative. I will not generally support a position unless I am fully convinced of it. And, at that point, I defend my position zealously. Some may call that arrogant or opinionated. (I've been accused of both.) I just see it as strong advocacy for a position in which I believe. I agree with you ... sometimes, that is all for naught. I recognize that one's greatest strengths can also be his greatest weaknesses. And, sometimes, we have to pick and choose which battles we decide to battle. And, it took me many years to learn ... you can win the battle, but lose the war. What do they call that ...? A Pyrrhic victory, I think? I did review that RfA discussion that you referenced above. I had to chuckle to myself when I saw that my name had come up, in terms of the Cheshire article. The whole time, though, I am scratching my head ... asking ... why would anyone in general (and you, in specific) want to be an admin? Oh, yes, I can see some benefit and enjoyment, perhaps. But, I am the type who would rather stay off to the side and out of the fray ... and just edit the articles of interest to me ... and steer clear of all the bureaucracy and politics. I have enough of that (bureaucracy and politics) in my "real" (offline) life. I certainly don't need/want any more here in my "escape" (virtual) life. I am sorry to see that the RfA did not conclude as you had hoped. But, you know the saying ... be careful what you wish for, you just might get it! In other words, everything happens for a reason ... and perhaps, in the end, this outcome is best for you. So, thanks again for the kind words above. And, again, I am glad to see that you are back editing in Wikipedia. Best, (Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 21:48, 14 April 2011 (UTC))[reply]

Thank you for that thoughtful response. You make many valid comments, and for sure I find much contentment editing at the user level. I did desire to be an admin for many ways I could perhaps have been good at it. It wasn't meant to be, and honestly I think where I may have had problems is that I might have unblocked users like you when I saw an inconsistency such as your example showed. I am very glad to see you editing again and the encyclopedia is better for it. I am better for having had an opportunity to collaborate with you and I look forward to a time again when we can collectively reach our best potential through cooperation. My76Strat (talk) 23:44, 14 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You left a good question on the Humanities page regarding the official version of the Catholic Bible. The straight answer is there is none. All our Bibles are translations of the original texts that are generally not available to us now. However, there is such a thing as a Catholic Bible that is distinct from other Bibles. The main reason is that we have a number of Books and texts that are not in the "Protestant Bible". The Book of: Tobit, Judith, Esther, The 2 Books of Maccabees, Wisdom, Ecclesiasticus, Baruch, parts of Daniel. These were deleted by Jewish people after Christ rose from the dead, as they had a reference to resurrection, or didn't fit the norm! (Scripture is my main study). (I always affirm in Court as invarably am presented with the King James' Version!). MacOfJesus (talk) 16:58, 26 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

One of my friends was in Court during the week and asked for a Catholic Bible, and was told, "we have none", but you can affirm! I always affirm, because of Matthew 5: 33-37. Was challenged twice and gave an account of my faith! MacOfJesus (talk) 17:47, 26 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This discussion was very much aired at the launch of The Jerusalem Bible (1966). "The Bible must remain free", was a phrase used. So, in the Divine Office (Prayer of The Church), you find all the English translations used throughout. Our modern languages change with time. Example: "spirit" was usually had the translation "ghost" in older translations. The King James' version was translated into a Shakesperian Standard English, that remains a point of reference today! MacOfJesus (talk) 08:33, 27 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Was my words helpful on the Bible? MacOfJesus (talk) 18:33, 2 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, thanks. I am still planning to get back to you on the Bible issue. That is on my "to do" list, and I shall be in touch shortly. Thanks! (Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 18:36, 2 May 2011 (UTC))[reply]

This help request has been answered. If you need more help, you can ask another question on your talk page, contact the responding user(s) directly on their user talk page, or consider visiting the Teahouse.

The question is about the article Deaths in 2011 specifically; it is also a general question for any article, however. I posted my question on Talk: Deaths in 2011, but I have received no replies there as of yet. So, I am posting here also. Is there any way to make the Table of Contents (TOC) read horizontally (left-to-right) as opposed to its present vertical (up-and-down) style? I think it would look much better. You can see the TOC of this article (List of Iranian actresses) for an example of what I mean. I looked at some templates, but they only seemed to apply to TOCs that are of the "A through Z" format. But, perhaps I am mistaken about that. Any insights on this issue? Thanks! (Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 17:42, 4 May 2011 (UTC))[reply]

Again the one to ask is user:OlEnglish on his talk page. MacOfJesus (talk) 18:15, 4 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

What do you think of my change to the vertical TOC? Feel free to undo it, of course. You could try {{TOCCalMonths}} too. -- John of Reading (talk) 21:25, 4 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, but ... no, sorry. That defeats the whole point. The page is essentially a calendar of the current month ... so people will want to find a specific date within the month. I'd like to see the TOC headings for the 30 days (i.e., the numbers 1 to 30) scroll left-to-right (horizontally) at the top of the page ... as opposed to the current up-and-down (vertically) at the right of the page, if possible. Is that do-able? Thanks. (Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 21:43, 4 May 2011 (UTC))[reply]

I couldn't find a substitutable template so I produced the markup on the article as <noinclude></noinclude> text. It is a form of the {{Compact TOC}} template. Cheers My76Strat (talk) 01:19, 5 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Looks neat, but it needs more work. If you click on "April" you get to April, then, if you click on "5" you jump back to May 5 - at least in Firefox. This is doable by adding an extra anchor to each day's sub-heading, but it could be a nightmare to maintain-- John of Reading (talk) 05:56, 5 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• As You Like It by William Shakespeare

I have raised this at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Shakespeare#Dramatis personæ for "Characters". --Old Moonraker (talk) 07:14, 6 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I have replied at this link above ... as well as at the article Talk Page. Thanks. (Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 19:50, 6 May 2011 (UTC))[reply]

Hi, as I see that you agreeing with me about the content on the Caylee Anthony homicide article. Perhaps you could change back the reverted material. I was wondering also if you could check out Niteshift36 and the IP that discussed there to behaviour. I find them to be both offensive at the moment, especially Niteshift36. Thanks--BabbaQ (talk) 19:33, 25 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

What's going on here? Inducting other editors to change back material so you aren't involved yourself (3rr?) is generally seen as trying to game the system. --87.194.194.250 (talk) 19:40, 25 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

If a third party agrees with the first party. And the first party simply suggests that the material should be re-added there is no problem. Im not demanding anything and after all I think Joseph Spadaro can make his/hers own mind up perfectly. Its not my problem if Spadaro happens to agree with me for example. If anything you 87.194.194.250 are trying to avoid the (3rr?) by asking Niteshift36 to do your work.--BabbaQ (talk) 19:46, 25 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

{{adminhelp}}

The following page was put up for speedy deletion: Anthony Weiner photo scandal. That page also had a Talk Page (Talk:Anthony Weiner photo scandal), on which editors could object to or support the speedy deletion. When I last read that Talk Page a few moments ago, there were about a dozen people who opposed the speedy deletion ... and perhaps only one person who did not oppose it. Then, an editor named User:Jonny-mt deleted the article. And now, that Talk Page -- and all of its discussion -- is nowhere to be found. Where can I find that Talk Page that was deleted? And, how can he (User:Jonny-mt) delete the page when the opponents to deletion outnumbered the supporters by 12 to 1? What would be the point of having the discussion then, if User:Jonny-mt can ignore and unilaterally override it? Thanks. (Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 06:31, 7 June 2011 (UTC))[reply]

Hi there. Please see the discussion on my talk page. --jonny-mt 08:05, 7 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This request for help from administrators has been answered. If you need more help or have additional questions, please reapply the {{admin help}} template, or contact the responding user(s) directly on their own user talk page.

I'd like an administrator to intervene. A user named Abrazame is constantly reverting my edits on the article of Anthony Weiner sexting scandal. Also, a user named Off2riorob is harassing me — and not Abrazame — by "threatening" me by posting a 3RR revert warning on my Talk Page (immediately above). Furthermore, Off2riorob is deliberately interfering with my "Admin Help" request ... by making unwanted, unwarranted, and unwelcome edits on my Talk Page. I added information into the Anthony Weiner sexting scandal article. Consensus on the Talk Page of that article approved such. And Abrazame keeps stating his own personal opinion that "this is not part of the scandal". All of the information that I added was true, factual, relevant, NPOV, and fully (reliably) sourced. Please advise. Thanks. (Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 22:42, 11 June 2011 (UTC))[reply]

As a friendly note, WP:3RR says that reversing another editor's edit, whether in whole or in part, counts as a revert. That information was added or removed does not matter, if it undoes the action that another editor performed. - SudoGhost™ 23:08, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I have removed the admin help request; you have been helped both on ANI and on the article talk page. Please don't try to carry the same discussion in 3 locations. --Shirik (Questions or Comments?) 23:14, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Please do not attack other editors, as you did at Talk:Anthony_Weiner_sexting_scandal#Weiner_checks_into_treatment. Comment on content, not on contributors. Personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Please stay cool and keep this in mind while editing. Thank you. - SudoGhost™ 03:06, 12 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You've been warned about this sort of conduct before, and still pretty much everything you've said at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Help me and your most recent comments at Talk:Anthony Weiner sexting scandal leave something to be desired in terms of civility. If you are not able to respond in a civil and measured manner to things that others say to you here on Wikipedia, I suggest that you take a few days off to cool down. Continuing to be uncivil and sarcastic in all of your responses, instead, will end with you blocked. Cheers. lifebaka++ 14:38, 12 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Joseph, I am writing here instead of creating a new Weinergate section. I have some concerns about this edit [1] to the talk page. When you wrote:

Why does he 'deserve the benefit of the doubt?' if anything that violates NPOV...

I strongly disagree. Giving the benefit of the doubt is having a neutral point of view. Though Wikipedia is not a court of law, it is not unlike the presumption of innocence, or being an impartial juror. Furthermore, it is given high importance that living persons not be libeled or defamed. The standard for biographical articles is greater than that of place or things. This is why I and others are arguing against the inclusion of certain things. It isn't that we're trying to soft-pedal the congressman, we are trying to follow the idea that having a citation of something does not make a good enough reason for there to be a link in the article. There's a tendency with current events to include every little detail. One way to think about this is to apply the ten year test on it. This isn't an official policy, it is just a guideline to think about looking back from ten years in the future. What is going to be important about the article that people will want to know?

The other thing I wanted to say is I was concerned about your statement that Weiner is a "proven self-serving liar" is defamatory. Even if he admits to lying about his online sex talk (which he has) this does not make him a unqualified liar. This is potentially libelous, and should be stricken. Talk pages are not exempt from BLP, and I'm bringing this to you instead of removing it myself as a courtesy.

Regards, Liberal Classic (talk) 21:16, 12 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Please do not attack other editors, as you did on Talk:Anthony Weiner sexting scandal. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing Wikipedia. This was unnecessary. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously. - SudoGhost™ 04:27, 13 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. - SudoGhost™ 11:47, 12 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This request for help from administrators has been answered. If you need more help or have additional questions, please reapply the {{admin help}} template, or contact the responding user(s) directly on their own user talk page.

Question: When does this AfD close? I thought that it was a seven-day process. Am I mistaken? Please advise. Thanks. (Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 17:21, 14 June 2011 (UTC))[reply]

I won't remove your template as you might want specifically to talk to an admin. - but it is seven days. That AFD is more or less ready to close and it will get closed soon enough now. Closure is not like, seven days is exactly up now please close, often they are closed a few hours early or a few hours late, if is is a close cut call or not well frequented it can be left open for another seven days - this is clearly not the case in this AFD, regards. Off2riorob (talk) 17:51, 14 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

As Off2riorob said, AFDs are not closed immediately after seven days but whenever admins are able to do it. The more complicated an AFD is, the longer it might take. No reason to worry though. In this case, I closed it now but generally you should only start worrying about such things if several days have passed without closing or relisting (since the old open AFDs will be listed at the next day for all admins to see). Regards SoWhy 20:10, 14 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for all your help on the Deaths in 2012 page. :) But how did you get such a beautiful user page? I'm assuming that all those coloured boxes are widgets of some kind, but I don't know. Guyovski (talk) 01:02, 16 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hello! You are certainly welcome (for the help that I offered on the Deaths page). That's certainly no problem. Thanks, also, for your compliments on my User Page. Those colored informational boxes are called "userboxes". You can read all about them here: Wikipedia:Userboxes. If you scroll down to the bottom of that page (to this section, here: Wikipedia:Userboxes#Gallery), you will see that there are hundreds – if not thousands – of different Wikipedia userboxes. You can add any of them to your own User Page. Just click on any of those links in that Gallery, depending on which category of userbox you are interested in. Please let me know if you have any questions. Thanks again! Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 18:11, 16 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is "I don't want to be forced to keep responding". Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.71.2.203 (talk) 17:33, 17 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

As a follow-up, I have gone to this webpage [2] and filled out an incident report stating: "Joseph A. Spadaro appears to assert that Holocaust denial is a legitimate form of philosophy," providing location details of the relevant talk page discussion and my contact information. This is absolutely not intended to escalate our dispute on Wikipedia, and all follow-up on this issue should be directed to that website. I am adding this talk page entry purely for informational purposes. Guyovski (talk) 20:14, 17 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

There's currently a discussion about the above post at WP:AN#Offwiki report to ADL? which you may want to participate in. Nick-D (talk) 07:47, 19 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, Joseph A. Spadaro. This message is being sent to inform you that there currently is a discussion at Wikipedia:Wikiquette assistance regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard regarding a recent Anti-Defamation League Report. The thread is "Offwiki report to ADL?". Thank you. --Guy Macon (talk) 08:31, 19 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Let me just say how sorry I am that this happened. The ADL is obviously unlikely to do anything with the report, but I suggest that you ask them to remove it from their records, as you use your real name to edit. The report itself constitutes defamation. ʝunglejill 13:20, 19 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Wow, I just perused the discussions about this. You really got the raw end of the deal and were dragged into something that was absolutely no fault of your own. I'm glad that you're still on WP and that after enduring that ordeal, you continue to make edits and speak your mind. Nicely done Sir... --Scalhotrod - Just your average banjo playing, drag racing, cowboy... (talk) 01:20, 14 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

There is no "standard" header. Please read Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Layout. The original header should be kept. Thank you. -- Necrothesp (talk) 10:33, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hello. I did read the section to which you directed me. Thanks. However, I do not agree with you. That section of the MOS says that the term "footnotes" is used when we have explanatory footnotes only. It goes on to say that the term "References" is used when we have citation footnotes. In the Robert Mone article, those are not explanatory footnotes, they are citation footnotes. So, please clarify for me what your point is and what the issue here is. To my understanding, an explanatory footnote is something like this example. "President Carter spent his childhood in California. (footnote 8)." And, below, footnote 8 says: "Carter, however, was actually born in Montana". That is a footnote that carries an explanatory text only, not a citation. In that type of case, the terminology "footnotes" is an appropriate header for the section. In the Mone article, however, the footnotes clearly contain citations to articles and such. So, please let me know your argument, your issue, and why you think the header should be "footnotes" instead of (the more traditional) "references". Thanks. Please reply at my Talk Page. Thanks for the note, also. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 16:04, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

See, also, a discussion that I raised about this issue at Wikipedia:Help desk#Proper header. Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 18:57, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I have answered there. -- Necrothesp (talk) 10:42, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I see that you were (are) active on the article and Talk Page for Dante's Divine Comedy. Are you familiar with the poem? May I ask you a question about it? Please reply at my Talk Page. Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 03:35, 3 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I'm familiar with the poem, though I'm hardly a Dante expert. If you have a question, you can ask it here (I'll watchlist this page), and I'll do my best to answer it or direct you to a relevant resource. Deor (talk) 10:08, 3 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hello. Thanks! I am just starting to read this poem. I know (basically) nothing about it, as of yet. The only thing that I do know is that the poem chronicles Dante's journeys through hell, purgatory, and heaven. Now, as I sat down to begin reading it, I wondered to myself, why the poem is entitled "comedy". I found that odd. So, I went to the Wikipedia article to seek an answer. I did not see any mention on this point at all. So, do you have any idea as to why Dante called his poem a "comedy"? I can't imagine that this journey through hell, etc., is "funny" in the comedic sense. The only thing that I can come up with, off the top of my head, is that the word "comedy" is used as it is used in Shakespeare (not so much meaning "funny" or "comedic", but simply meaning a happy ending as opposed to a tragedy). And, I am assuming, the "happy ending" is that his journey ends in heaven, since he exited hell. But, I have no idea. And, again, the title puzzled me. Any thoughts? Thanks! Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 15:12, 3 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

You're correct that it was called Commedia (at least partly) because of its "happy ending" in heaven. This is addressed in the third paragraph of Divine Comedy#Thematic concerns, and I quoted Dante's remarks on the matter in this reference-desk thread a few years ago. Deor (talk) 15:25, 3 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. That was very helpful. I certainly would never have found that Reference Desk thread, without you directing me to it. And, as far as that section in the actual article: I very intentionally only "skimmed" the article, very briefly, as I did not want any "spoilers" before I read the poem. In my very quick scan, I missed the section to which you referred. Thanks so much! Let me ask you another question, if I may. Would you suggest that one read the entire poem, beginning to end? Or is it OK to just read the Hell section, put it down, later read the Purgatory section, put it down, and later read the Heaven section? I understand that is likely a personal preference. But, which approach is best, do you think (to get the full impact and meaning of the poem)? It seems awfully big (daunting) to read from end to end. On the other hand, I don't want to "lose" anything by parceling out the reading in three distinct sections, over a long period of time, with my reading of other (distracting) material intervening. Thoughts? Suggestions? Thanks! Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 15:40, 3 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hmmm, that's a difficult question. When I've read it for pleasure—as opposed to just investigating some specific point—I never been able to resist reading the whole thing straight through. It helps that my favorite of the three cantiche is the Paradiso, so I'm always looking forward to it. I don't, however, see any particular problem with reading the cantiche separately over a period of time; though it is, I think, important to read them in order.

As a sort of introduction to whet one's appetite for the poem, I can't recommend highly enough an essay by Dorothy Sayers, called "... And Telling You a Story". It was originally published in Essays Presented to Charles Williams, ed. C. S. Lewis, in 1947, but I'm sure it has been reprinted elsewhere since. If you can find a copy, I encourage you to read it. I don't know what translation you're using or how well it's annotated, but you'll probably want a guide to the many unfamiliar names you'll come across in the Comedy. Wikipedia's List of cultural references in Divine Comedy is a serviceable compendium of brief explanations. The most copious and detailed notes I know of in English are those in Charles Singleton's edition (three volumes of Italian text and translation and three volumes of notes), but they may be rather daunting for a first-time reader. I'd advise you to just dig in and start reading; you may find yourself unable to stop, or you may find that you need a rest after the rigors of Hell. I don't see that it matters much. Deor (talk) 19:30, 3 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the valuable input. Yes, I certainly do plan to read them in order. I guess it's just a question of whether I will read all three continuously or with breaks in between. The edition that I purchased is this one: Dante's Divine Comedy: Hell, Purgatory, Paradise. It is translated by Henry Wadsworth Longfellow and illustrated by Gustave Doré. It's a beautiful book, and the price was very reasonable ($14 or so). I will also try to find that essay you mention (by Dorothy Sayers), before I actually start reading Dante's poem. As a side note, I started reading another book in the interim, William Faulkner's As I Lay Dying. Are you familiar with that one? And can you offer any insights? Thanks so much! Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 15:54, 4 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, can't help you with that one; I haven't read it. Deor (talk) 16:24, 4 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

No problem. Thanks for all the other suggestions and advice! Much appreciated. I will follow your suggestions. I am looking forward to reading this! Thanks again! Best, Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 17:05, 4 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hello. I do not really appreciate your comments at the Wikipedia:Reference desk/Humanities#As I Lay Dying, implying that I am a child seeking help with homework. Some questions at the Help Desks are, indeed, bona fide. If you are "at" the Help Desk, I assume that you are there to "help" or to offer some insights into the bona fide questions of other editors ... and not to belittle the questions of others as if they were trivial, childish, and nothing more than a veiled adolescent disguise at cheating on homework. What exactly about my question leads you to your assumption that I am a child attempting to cheat on a homework assignment, as distinguished from a bona fide question, seeking information (i.e., indeed the very purpose of the Help Desk)? And, furthermore, even if that is your personal suspicion, why act on it in such a condescending and mocking (and very public) manner? Please advise. Please reply at my Talk Page. Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 13:52, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

StuRat, I am particularly surprised/dismayed/disappointed/hurt by your behavior. I have seen you on these Help Desks quite a bit. And, in fact, I am sure that you have helped me over the past many years, several times. This seems out of character for you. And, as such, it is particularly disappointing and hurtful. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk)

Apologies if my response seemed inappropriate, but I expect that you’ll agree the question does resemble a homework assignment.DOR (HK) (talk) 05:52, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

You are invited to join the discussion at User Talk:StuRat#As I Lay Dying. Senra (talk) 16:00, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe you'd be interested in commenting in a discussion I started on the talk page about the tags an editor added?[3] Halo Jerk1 (talk) 20:53, 11 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Could you take a look at a new talk page discussion on Murder of Travis Alexander concerning changing the article name to Death of... I have tried to reason and explain to the IP about the previous discussion held to deaf ears unfortunatly.--BabbaQ (talk) 19:56, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting. I thought Joseph was a random person who shared your opinion and thus I was prepared to settle; but it seems you sneakily went and recruited him knowing he was on your side. Very sly and pathetic. I also believe it is against the wiki rules to seek help in edit discussions from users you already know share your opinion... 87.232.1.48 (talk) 23:56, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I would be very careful to not throw accusations around like you are doing right now. It almost seems like you are "out to win the discussion at any cost" which is not productive. Me contacting Joseph was because he had been involved along with me in the original consensus discussion concerning the name of Murder of Travis Alexander, which you for some reason totally ignored when I tried to tell you about. --BabbaQ (talk) 14:52, 15 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Also interesting to note that the user Ip is currently active at three IP numbers 87.232.1.48 , 134.226.254.178 and 87.232.101.49.--BabbaQ (talk) 19:15, 15 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Article name[edit]

Hi again, now some user has gone and changed the article name from Murder of Travis Alexander to Homicide of Travis Alexander without discussing it and ignoring consensus. This has gone way to far in my opinion, in my opinion this is a Murder and nothing else changing the article name like that is misleading. Hope you see and understand my points. Thanks.--BabbaQ (talk) 14:47, 15 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I was bold and moved the article name back to Murder of.... I have also started a new "what should the article name be" discussion at the talk page. For me a waste of time but as a few users seems to disagree with a passion I thought a new discussion was the best way to settle this.--BabbaQ (talk) 15:41, 15 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

In Excel (2010), is there any way to get a solid horizontal line directly in the middle of a cell, going from left to right (in other words, cutting the cell in half horizontally)? I don't want to use a series of dashes or minus signs or equal signs, because they have a little blank space between each character (leaving little gaps). Rather, I want a solid, unbroken horizontal line (with no gaps). I looked in the "borders" format function, under "more borders". And there is indeed exactly the type of border that I am looking for. However, that specific border format is "grayed out", so that I am not able to click on it. Why is it even there, if it cannot be clicked on or selected? Or am I doing something wrong, and I should indeed be able to click on it? Any ideas? Thanks! Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 21:17, 3 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

You could use a macro to draw the lines. The following VBA code draws a horizontal line in the middle of every cell in the current selection:

Sub DrawLines()     Dim c As Range     For Each c In Selection         ActiveSheet.Shapes.AddLine c.Left, c.Top + c.Height / 2, c.Left + c.Width, c.Top + c.Height / 2     Next End Sub 

AndrewWTaylor (talk) 18:07, 4 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I will try that macro and see how that works. But, I have no idea of what a macro really is. So, where exactly do I type all of that above code? Where in the Excel spreadsheet do I type all of that? Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 20:01, 4 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

You need to copy it into the Visual Basic Editor, which you can get to by pressing Alt+F11. Here are some links that should get you started: [4], [5], [6]. AndrewWTaylor (talk) 09:40, 5 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the info and for those links. I will try that. Thank you. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 13:42, 5 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, the macro is definitely the most elegant solution, and it works perfectly (I've just tried it). Dbfirs 17:19, 6 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

To AndrewWTaylor: Thank you very much for providing me with this macro, and with the links that explain how to create a macro. I really do appreciate it. Thanks again! Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 19:21, 6 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Why don't you do it the easy way, with the draw tool that there is every version of Excel? You can download my example here. By the way the border you saw, which you could not click, was not a line in the middle; it is rather a grid line that can be made visible when you select more cells at once. It was gray because you had not selected more than one cell on top of each other (vertical selection).--Gciriani (talk) 20:13, 6 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. Thanks. The above conversation is actually an excerpt from this Reference Page Help Desk question: Wikipedia:Reference desk/Computing#Excel question: horizontal line. If you go to that link, you'll see more of the conversation. In any event, I had mentioned (at that page) why the "draw" function really doesn't work very well (for me). Also, another editor explained why my border line selections were "grayed out". (Which I now understand, but did not when I posed my original question.) Thanks so much for your reply here on my Talk Page. I actually looked at (downloaded?) your example of a horizontal line. But, once I looked at it, I was not sure what to do with it (i.e., how to place that into my own Excel spreadsheet) ... ? Do you know how to do so? Thanks again! Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 22:24, 6 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

You can draw lines with the draw menu. To activate the menu, please go to View / Toolbars and check mark Drawing. At least this is the menu path in Excel 2003. Once the menu is active you have a bunch of drawing tools available: for my example, I selected the line tool, and then on the spreadsheet itself I clicked on one side and dragged it across the cells of interest. It can be adjusted at any time for position of both ends, thickness and color. I hope this helps.--Gciriani (talk) 23:33, 6 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Yes, I know how to "draw" a line in Excel. But, it is not a great solution to my problem. This is what I had replied at that Reference Desk Page, when another editor suggested using the "draw" function. I replied: "Yes, the drawing menu is still there. I did try it. It's not an ideal solution, however. It's hard to draw a "nice, clean, straight" line. This is because it is hard to "start" and "stop" the line at the exact spot you want; it is hard to draw the line perfectly horizontal (as it tends to slightly slant up or down); and it is hard to get the line in the exact center of the cell. In other words, the line will only be as precise as your hand drawing will allow. Plus, you have to draw a line in every single cell, one by one." Thanks! Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 23:36, 6 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Joseph, thanks for your note on my talk page about this. You're welcome - glad I was able to help. AndrewWTaylor (talk) 09:37, 7 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks again! Much appreciated! I will be using your macro; it does exactly what I want/need. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 15:31, 7 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Someone has decided to nominate List of actors who have appeared in multiple Best Picture Academy Award winners for deletion. Since you have helped for many years in the upkeep of the article, I invite you to take part in the discussion, which can be found here: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of actors who have appeared in multiple Best Picture Academy Award winners. TheLastAmigo (talk) 23:40, 30 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for bringing this to my attention. I have added my input at that Nomination for Deletion page. The nomination is ridiculous, and I will be very upset if this article is deleted. Thanks again. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 23:59, 30 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I read your response and I really appreciate it. I will also be very upset if it is deleted. I've been maintaining the article since 2007, and the guy who nominated it for deletion has only been a Wikipedia editor since February of this year. I'm flabbergasted by this nomination. It does seem that most editors so far are in favor of keeping it, however. TheLastAmigo (talk) 00:08, 31 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I agree with all that you state in your above post. I will make some other editors aware of this deletion nomination, and I will ask for their input at that page. Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 00:13, 31 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

To – TheLastAmigo (talk): Hi. I have a question for you. I am assuming that the answer is "yes" ... but, rather than assume, I'd rather ask. Are you interested in the general topic of Academy Awards and in the specific topic of Academy Awards records? Please let me know. I expect that your answer is "yes", but – again – I'd rather check with you and ask, as opposed to just assume. Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 19:34, 2 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, I am interested in film in general, but the Oscars are one of my favorite film subjects. I also find Oscar records fascinating. TheLastAmigo (talk) 21:59, 2 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, thanks. Yes, I thought that your answer would be along those lines. And here is the reason that I ask. I recently purchased a book, called 85 Years of the Oscar: The Official History of the Academy Awards. Now, a few years back, I had also purchased the previous edition of that book (which was called 75 Years of the Oscar: The Official History of the Academy Awards). Now that I have the new book, I want to get rid of the old book. Of course, I'd hate to throw it away. So, I was wondering if you might want it? The book is in perfect / pristine condition. I don't think that I ever even cracked the spine of the book. (This is not because I wasn't interested in the book, but more so because I have been far too busy and never had any free time to read it.) The book contains 400+ pages of pictures, facts, statistics, records, etc., etc., etc., about the Oscars. If you look at this link, you will see the specific details of the book from the Amazon website: 75 Years of the Oscar: The Official History of the Academy Awards. So, rather than my throwing this book away, I was wondering if you'd like to have it? I'd give it to you for free (because I would hate to throw the book out), but I would only charge you for the postage. Let me know if you have any interest. It's a beautiful book, in perfect condition. It's never been touched, never been read, never even been opened (except perhaps once). It's in "brand new" condition. Normally, I would hold onto it myself, but the free space on my huge bookshelf is ever diminishing. So, I won't hold onto this, since I have the newer edition. Please let me know. Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 22:34, 2 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Oh wow, that is very generous of you. I would definitely be interested in that. Do you have a Facebook account? If so, you should add me and we can discuss the details. Here is the link to my account. https://www.facebook.com/wes.huizar

Also, since you are interested in the Academy Awards, have you ever read the book Inside Oscar: The Unofficial History of the Academy Awards? It was co-written by one of my good friends and mentors, Damien Bona, who sadly passed away in January 2012. It may be the best book on the subject that I have ever read. TheLastAmigo (talk) 22:57, 2 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, thanks. No, I don't use Facebook, Twitter, MySpace, and all that social media stuff. I am a bit older and have no interest in that "younger generation" stuff. I barely use my cell phone. I have a few books on the Oscars, but I am not sure if the one that you mention is among them. I am actually going through the process of cleaning up my boxes of books, bookshelves, etc. That is how I came upon the book I mentioned above. So, if I do have the book your friend wrote, it is buried among all my others, and it is not at my disposal until I get to those boxes. Sorry to hear about your friend, though. I read his bio here in Wikipedia. That's a shame that he died so young. Perhaps the easiest way to move forward is to email me. My email is the same name that I have here (Joseph A Spadaro) ... plus the "AT" and plus the "aol.com". (There is no period after my middle initial "A" in my email address.) Contact me there and we can go forward. Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 23:09, 2 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

To User talk:TonyTheTiger – Hi. Did you create the template for Academy Award lists? I think that I noticed a few items (links) missing; I think that they should be added into the template. But, I don't know how to do so. Hence, I am contacting you. I am referring to this template below.

Please let me know how I can handle this. Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 19:01, 16 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, please list the items you think should be added and ping me.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 19:32, 16 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I only have a quick minute, right now. So, off the top of my head ... List of Academy Awards ceremonies ... and ... List of presenters of Best Picture Academy Award. I don't think that they are in there? Please let me know what you decide to do. Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 20:22, 16 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The presenters is in there.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 09:18, 17 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

OK, thanks. Looks like you added the other one. Thank you. However, I just noticed several more missing:

• List of Best Director winners by age
• List of submissions to the 86th Academy Awards for Best Foreign Language Film – and 85th, 84th, 83rd, etc.
• List of Academy Award winners and nominees for Best Foreign Language Film
• List of countries by number of Academy Awards for Best Foreign Language Film
• List of Academy Award-winning foreign language films (in categories other than the Foreign Language Film category itself)
• List of foreign language films nominated for Academy Awards (in categories other than the Foreign Language Film category itself)

Will you add these, also? Please let me know. Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 18:41, 17 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Two of these were already included. Added List of Best Director winners by age, List of Academy Award winners and nominees for Best Foreign Language Film and List of countries by number of Academy Awards for Best Foreign Language Film. Did not add List of submissions to the 86th Academy Awards for Best Foreign Language Film because submissions are part of another templating system.

Hi. Thanks. On a related note, I'd like to offer this. I think that the idea of this template is great (thanks for getting it started). However, I think that it needs some improvement in organization, wording, etc. Generally speaking, the wording seems to be too compact and too abbreviated, and it doesn't really offer a good indication as to what the list is really all about (in several instances). Do you have any thoughts on this? Is there any way to revise the template so that the full name of the article appears; or would that be too unwieldy? Perhaps there is some middle ground? Thoughts? Also, some items are listed in alphabetical order, some are not. Also, the organization/break-down of categories on the left-hand side might be tweaked. Any thoughts on this? Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 16:58, 18 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Why don't you post comments on this subject at WP:FILM where a broader set of eyes can consider this issue.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 19:45, 18 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, that's a good idea. I will do so. Also, just so you know ... I am probably going to create an article (perhaps, two) entitled List of Academy Award-related lists ... and List of Academy Award-related articles. Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 19:57, 18 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Mention those ideas at WP:FILM and see what kind of feedback you get.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 20:11, 18 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, will do. Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 20:13, 18 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

In reply to your question here, see the sections "Other high-temperature records" and "Other low-temperature records" on List of weather records. That's the go-to page for this question. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 17:05, 18 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

A-ha. I will have to take a look at that. I did not know that that existed, and it was not mentioned when I asked my question at that Help Desk / Reference Desk page a week or two ago. Thanks so much for following up with that question. I appreciate the new info. I will check that out. Thanks again. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 17:21, 18 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Glad that you find my reply helpful, even though it comes late! --Florian Blaschke (talk) 17:38, 18 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, very helpful indeed. Thank you. Thanks, also, for following up on the "old" question on that Reference Desk. I appreciate it! Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 17:59, 18 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

A year ago you suggested changing the title to this page. I have just replied with a suggestion on the article's talk page. If you think it looks good, I would suggest you go ahead and make the change. 99.192.81.220 (talk) 20:13, 19 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I will check it out. Thanks for the notice. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 21:53, 19 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Do you think it should be renamed "Murder of Buddy Musso"? There were multiple perpetrators, not just Basso. WhisperToMe (talk) 13:19, 3 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hmmmmmm. Interesting. I had never thought of that. Here is my initial off-the-cuff reaction. Two thoughts. Point One: I think that the person (Suzanne Basso) is "more" notable than the crime itself (murder of Musso). This whole incident made big news (at least, on the national level) essentially because Basso is one of the very rare female death row inmates who gets executed. If it was not for that fact, I don't think that the crime itself would have garnered that much news. As gruesome as it was, it would have been an "ordinary, run-of-the-mill" murder story, which would not necessarily gain national coverage (except for the fact that Basso was the female killer). You mentioned the fact that there were multiple perpetrators. The others have been made rather insignificant (in comparison to Basso); in fact, I almost forgot that there were indeed other accomplices. If I remember correctly, Basso was the ring-leader, however. You will notice, though, that the other participants have not gained any notability, or any national coverage, for their roles. In fact, you would be hard-pressed to find anyone even knowing/remembering their names. Those others are just footnotes in the whole incident, really. Basso is really the name that sticks out; hence, it is Basso – not the murder – that was the notable aspect of this story. Point Two: I just re-read the entire article as it now stands. It is clearly written about Basso, and not really the murder per se. Again, much of the focus is on her being the rare female death row inmate who (eventually) gets executed. The article, as it is now, is not so much about the crime. If we renamed the article to "Murder of Musso", it would have to be largely rewritten. We would have to add a great deal, about the victim and the murder. And we would have to pare down all the details about the perpetrator (Basso). So, all in all, I think the better approach is to keep "murder of Musso" as a sub-section within the Basso article. (In other words, keep it as it is.) However, I do think that the murder sub-section should be enhanced with more info and more details. Those are my thoughts on this matter. What are your thoughts? Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 14:25, 3 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I am aware the incident got national attention before Basso's execution (the Crime Library article was written long before the Basso execution) but from looking at it, it half-focuses on Basso (and to a lesser extent her son) and half on Musso. So it's not like Stephanie Kuhen where not any one of the particular perpetrators stands out. Maybe I can check for sources and see how much focus they put on Suzanne Basso and check whether they are national or local. WhisperToMe (talk) 14:35, 3 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I am from Connecticut; very far removed from Texas. So, I only state what I myself saw from the perspective of national coverage. I certainly imagine that local coverage played out differently. I did not (yet) read the Crime Library article. But your mention of them (the website) gave me this thought. The article may have been written long before the actual execution. However, it was probably indeed initially written due to the fact that Basso was a female killer accused of capital murder and would soon be sitting on death row and would potentially be getting executed (even though it hadn't happened yet). Even though the article was written before the actual execution, it may have garnered their (Crime Library's) interest due to that aspect (the potential, as-of-yet not carried-out rare female execution) of the murder. I am not sure. And, indeed, it may have been that aspect of the crime (rather than the crime itself) that garnered other media interest aside from Crime Library's. In other words, if that is indeed what happened with Crime Library, it may also have been the case with other coverage of the murder. I just don't know. All in all, I think – at the end of the day – Basso is the central figure here. Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 14:50, 3 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Crime Library put it under the "Women Who Kill" so perhaps it is partly that Basso is a woman. I'll check and see what other media sources say. You are welcome :) WhisperToMe (talk) 15:10, 3 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I really do believe that that is the key here. To be honest, if the killer were not a female, I think this crime would have flown completely under the radar, except perhaps at the local level. Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 15:18, 3 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Do you do photo requests? I would like to know if you are close to Milford or Greenwich: Commons:Commons:Picture_requests/Requests/United_States#Connecticut. If not, I can check for things in the state which may be good to photograph.

Thanks WhisperToMe (talk) 15:13, 3 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. I have no idea what a photo request is (although, I think I can guess what it means). I am not close to either area. And, I actually never take photos. I have no "regular" camera; and I don't even know how to use my cell phone camera. Sorry! Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 15:21, 3 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, ok. Just to clarify, a photo request is where someone wants a photo of a subject on Wikipedia, so a Wikipedians takes a photo himself or herself and uploads the picture to the Wikimedia Commons so the photo can be used on Wikipedia. WhisperToMe (talk) 15:32, 3 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Yep, exactly what I figured it would be. Taking photo's is definitely not my thing; in fact, it's almost an aversion. Sorry! Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 15:39, 3 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

It's ok. I'll see if there are others from the same state :) WhisperToMe (talk) 16:44, 3 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Saw your thread at WP:RDL and thought a response here might be more helpful. WP:NRHP maintains lists of historic sites in the USA, many of which are named for individuals (e.g. John Doe House), and many of which aren't (e.g. First National Bank), so this kind of thing is highly relevant for us. We've generally alphabetised personal names as we would their namesakes, so the John Smith House is placed just after the Second National Bank and far away from the John Doe House. See any of the sub-lists of National Register of Historic Places listings in Connecticut for examples. Nyttend (talk) 22:34, 3 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the reply here. I did look at that link, and it did indeed confirm what you stated above. Now, is this a matter of Wikipedia policy? Or just something that the Wiki Project came to consensus on? Also, so I am clear: if you had a John Smith High School, that would be alphabetized as if it were "Smith, John High School"? Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 22:41, 3 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I've never seen any kind of policy on this issue; this is just how our project has handled it. And yes, we'd put JSHS in the "Sm" section. See National Register of Historic Places listings in Sullivan County, Tennessee, where the "George Washington School" appears after the "US Post Office-Shelby Street Station" and before the "Wills-Dickey Stone House". Exceptions happen, but they're accidental: our lists were generated by a computer program, and we cleaned them up, but we occasionally missed entries. For example, until just a moment ago, National Register of Historic Places listings in Scioto County, Ohio had the "General U.S. Grant Bridge" placed before the "George H. Gharky House", seemingly because the list-generator person accidentally retained the computer's sort of this bridge as "General" instead of as "Grant". Nyttend (talk) 22:51, 3 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Great. Thanks! A side-note; or, rather, a side-question. A computer program is able to discern whether a string of words represents a person's name, as opposed to just a bunch of regular words strung together? Really? How do they manage to do that? Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 23:01, 3 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Not exactly that. Everything came from the National Park Service's database, in which names are inconsistently alphabetised; for example, Philadelphia's Benjamin Franklin Hotel appears as "Benjamin Franklin Hotel" and gets sorted between "Belmont School " and "Bergdoll Mansion", while the Sullivan County school appears as "Washington, George, School". It's an artifact of the database-creation process: each place is added to the database when it's added to the Register, rather than lots being added in one big clump, so the same name format may be treated in different ways. WP:NRHP member User:Elkman (a professional computer programmer, if I remember rightly) downloaded the NPS database and made it queryable, and he got it to turn around some names, but not all. Go to http://www2.elkman.net/nrhp/countylist.php and pick Sullivan County, TN — you'll see that the "Alison, Finlay, House" is rendered as "Finlay Alison House", but the "Hall, Alexander Doak, Farm" doesn't get turned around, and we have the "Washington, George, School" near the end. We've done our best, but as you can imagine, problems still happen. Sometimes this occurs when we misunderstand a name: one time I sorted the Somebody Someone Lustron House as if it had been "Lustron, Somebody Someone, House" (it should have been "Someone, Somebody, Lustron House") because I'd never heard of Lustron houses. We've also had to be careful with churches, since St. Somebody's Church should go at the start of the "S" section instead of near the end. Nyttend (talk) 23:56, 3 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, my! What a mess! I am glad that I don't have those issues to contend with! Thanks for all your help! Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 23:59, 3 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

You're welcome. Could be worse; we've been doing it collaboratively for the last several years, and most of these examples came from searching the database, not from my memory. For a while, we were recording errors at Wikipedia:WikiProject National Register of Historic Places/NRIS information issues for correspondence with NPS, but eventually we discovered that they have more important things to do than fixing typos and alphabetical-sort errors. Nyttend (talk) 00:05, 4 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

A-ha! Good luck with the project. Thanks for all your help. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 04:33, 4 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I would like to request help from an admin. Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 04:53, 9 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

This request for help from administrators has been answered. If you need more help or have additional questions, please reapply the {{admin help}} template, or contact the responding user(s) directly on their own user talk page.

What help do you need? –xeno^talk 16:01, 9 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. Thanks. I posted a question on the Humanities Reference Desk. See here: Wikipedia:Reference desk/Humanities#Current events: Trial of Oscar Pistorius. Another editor (μηδείς) has repeatedly hidden my question, claiming that it is "speculation" and therefore a violation of policy. You can read the dialogue at that page. The post had been hidden; unhidden; hidden; unhidden several times (by other editors, not myself). Just now, I went in again, saw that it was hidden, and I made it unhidden. Please advise. Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 16:21, 9 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

This is a WP:BLP issue which was reported to the WP:BLPN. You should take the advice of the administrator there. μηδείς (talk) 16:43, 9 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Well, not for nothing ... but, how was I supposed to even know that that thread even existed? Please advise. Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 17:16, 9 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Please note that I don't have the time or energy to help with this query. Another administrator should feel free to fulfill the help request, or if this issue is no longer live, please disable the template. –xeno^talk 01:55, 11 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I have read what you say, and understand your concerns. Looking to see what help you are actually requesting, the only things that I can see here that actually ask for anything are "Please advise" and "how was I supposed to even know that that thread even existed? Please advise", so I shall try to address those.

1. On the question of how you were supposed to know that the thread existed, the editor who started the section should have informed you, and I shall drop him/her a note saying so.
2. You were not making any "speculation", but simply asking for a fact. There was nothing whatever wrong with doing so, and Medeis's criticism was totally unfounded. That has now been explained repeatedly, and if Medeis still doesn't understand, then I don't see anything more that can be done about that.
3. Since you ask for advice, I will give you my advice. Naturally, it is up to you whether you choose to follow it or not. In my view, this whole thing got a trivial incident (you asking an innocent question) totally out of proportion. However, the last post to the BLP noticeboard section was two and a half days ago, and the same applies to the reference desk section if we ignore a few possibly tongue-in-cheek comments that don't relate at all either to your question or to the controversy over that question. My advice is to forget the matter, and move on.
4. Another point, which you did not ask about, but which I noticed in the course of checking the history of this case in order to be able to answer your request, and I thought it might be helpful to mention it. In this edit you posted to the top of a section. To anyone reading the section who does not either search through the editing history or carefully compare the dates in the signatures of each contribution, this makes it look as though you started the section, and what follows was a response to that edit. That can give a completely misleading impression as to the intentions behind posts to the discussion. It is almost never a good idea to post to the top of a section, and on the very rare occasions when there is a justification for doing so, it is best to clearly state that you are doing so. The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 10:52, 11 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hello. Thanks. I certainly do appreciate your input and your help. Thanks again. I have read your four bullet points above. However, point number 4 – which (ironically) you considered to be tangential – is actually the whole problem here. So, I am not quite sure if you understood my questions, concerns, complaints, etc. By reading your bullet point number 4, I am assuming that you did not appreciate the gist of the problem. So, please let me explain. My original post is the one that asked the very benign, simple, innocent question. It is the "second one down", with a date and time stamp of "19:37, 7 March 2014 (UTC)". That was the original post I submitted. Now, after that post, the editor μηδείς hid my post, claiming that it was speculation and thus a BLP violation. So, some other editors (not I) continued a back-and-forth of hiding, un-hiding, hiding, un-hiding, etc. And, the claims went back-and-forth that my post was speculation and a BLP violation ... no, it was not ... yes, it was ... no, it was not ... etc. etc. etc. I stayed out of that argument. Finally, my original post remained in the status of being "hidden" (I presume by editor μηδείς). He (or she) kept insisting that my post was speculation, and that my post was a BLP violation. As you can see from all of the relevant discussions, he never addressed the multiple questions of how exactly was the post speculation or in violation of BLP. In any event, μηδείς (or someone) kept my question/post as being "hidden". User μηδείς kept insisting that I needed to add some "proof" (source) of what I was claiming. It was my understanding – as past experiences clearly bore out – that user μηδείς was not going to "let up" until he got his way. In other words, he would continue to "hide" my post, based on his (erroneous?) claim that my post was speculation and a violation of BLP. So, in order to placate him, I added in a source (the affidavit of Oscar Pistorius). My goal in doing so was to placate μηδείς for the present time being, while the "issue" was ironed out as to whether or not my original post was fine or was speculation and violation. In other words, it was a sort of "temporary" solution on my part, in order to keep the thread active and not "hidden". I had assumed that the issue would get resolved one way or another through the ensuing discussions. Now, in order to placate μηδείς (and essentially "get him off my back", for lack of a better phrase), I decided to add in the source, which he was claiming was obligatory on my part. I did not want to add my source in the "middle" of the discussion, assuming that it would get "lost" and be less "visible" and less obvious / less conspicuous. So, therefore, in order to make the addition of the source very crystal-clear – and in order to placate μηδείς and in order to stop μηδείς from constantly "hiding" my post – I put it right at the top of the thread, so that it could not be missed. Quite frankly, I don't think I need to "source" my innocent question, just because μηδείς "feels" that it is speculative and a BLP violation. As stated, I threw it in there as a temporary solution. My intent was – and still is – to delete that source, since I feel it is unnecessary; and since I feel that μηδείς has no "right" to require it of me. Now, of course, I knew that the minute I deleted the source, μηδείς would go right back in and "hide" my post again, as he did several other times prior (until he "got his way", by my adding a source to fulfill his "requirements" to keep my post un-hidden). So, not wanting to get into an argument or discussion about what I considered an unreasonable position, I sought out an administrator for advice. So, this is a long-winded way of telling you two things. One, this is my explanation for why I placed my Oscar Pistorius affidavit edit at the very top of the thread. And, two, the issue is not resolved in any way; the minute that I delete that source, μηδείς will feel obligated to "hide" my thread again and, I assume, will in fact do so. Please advise. Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 18:20, 11 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, your account of what happened is exactly what I thought. I still think that if you thought there were good reasons for posting at the top, it would have been better to have said "I am posting this at the top of the section because..." but I don't think that's important enough to be worth worrying about.

In your original post, you were clearly asking for information about what Pistorius said: "So, according to his story, did he say ... What reason did he give? Or did he just say ..." All of that is asking for factual information, not "speculation", and to call it a "BLP violation" is absurd. The one part of it which could be taken as asking for speculation was "What prompted that action on his part?" In the context, I took that as being shorthand for "what did he say prompted that action on his part?" but out of context it could be read as asking for Wikipedia editors' speculations. However, even if it is read that way, I still regard calling it a "BLP violation" as unrealistic.

Having said all that, surely the most important point is that the purpose of the reference desk is to see if any other editors can give you the information you ask for. By now, it must surely be abundantly clear that nobody is going to give you that. That being so, I see no purpose whatever in persisting. Why does it matter whether the discussion is hidden or not? Hidden or unhidden, it isn't going to give you the answer to the questions you asked, which should be the only purpose of a thread at the reference desk, and in any case it will be archived soon. Assuming that you don't want to indulge in an infantile competition between you and Medeis to see who can "win", I really, really suggest that the only reasonable thing to do now is to decide "Well, unfortunately I didn't find out what I wanted to know about what Oscar Pistorius said. That's a pity", and move on to other things. The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 19:35, 11 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I did, in fact, get an answer to my question. Long ago. (The answer is: He thought that he heard a noise coming from the bathroom area. Hence, he moved from the bedroom area to the bathroom area.) I appreciate your help, but I honestly don't think that you are understanding my point. Which is: once I delete the "source", μηδείς is going to "hide" the discussion yet again. And, then, this cycle will repeat all over again. Rather than the infantile repeating of the same cycle, I had asked for advice as to how to resolve the question. The question being, whether the original post is proper or a BLP violation. You asked: what does it matter, if the discussion is hidden or un-hidden? No offense, but that kind of thinking misses the whole point. If we abide by that philosophy, User μηδείς or any other user can simply – without any justification whatsoever – "hide" any post that they feel like hiding. If that's the case, what's the point at all of having a Reference Desk, in the first place? That philosophy allows – in fact, encourages – one individual editor to be omnipotent in deciding what questions he will or will not allow to be asked. That seems like the very opposite reason for having a Reference Help Desk, no? It's not a matter of winning or losing. But, your reply has me quite confused. On the one hand, you are saying that μηδείς is clearly 100% wrong in his BLP assessment. On the other hand, you are saying: "Well, despite the fact that he is wrong in requiring that the question be hidden, let's keep it hidden anyway. What's the difference if it's hidden or not?" Or am I misunderstanding what you are saying? Maybe I can re-phrase my question. Perhaps, something like this: How can I find out whether or not (i.e., what would the consensus be as to whether or not) my original post is appropriate or a BLP violation? I assume you are trying to help. But, I think that we have different goals and aims here. My goal is to get an answer to that (relevant) question; (i.e., is my conduct a BLP violation?, not the substantive Oscar Pistorius question). Your goal seems to be more of: let's let sleeping dogs lie; there is no point in picking a winner or a loser; let μηδείς have his way and feel like he "won"; and this will allow us all to move on; just let him "win" for the greater good of keeping the peace. Again, or am I misunderstanding your position? I think my question is a very reasonable and valid one. I have been accused of a BLP violation. And I still don't know whether or not I committed one. Sweeping that very significant question under the rug (i.e., by just conceding that the post should be allowed to be hidden) is neither helpful nor serves a purpose nor serves in the best interest of Wikipedia. Again, I think I asked a valid question and posed a valid concern. And I am just trying to get an answer. Hence, I have turned to administrators for assistance in this important Wikipedia matter. BLP is probably one of the more important – if not, the most important – policy on Wikipedia. If an editor is accused of violating BLP, said editor should be able to ascertain whether or not he, in fact, did so. Said editor – or any editor – should be able to ask (and get an answer to) whether or not his conduct rises to a level of a BLP violation. Please advise. Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 20:04, 11 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Clearly there is some failure to communicate between the two of us. From what you say, you evidently perceive a failure by me to understand what you are saying, while to me it looks like a failure by you to understand what I am saying. Maybe there is a bit of both. I will try to clarify things a little, if I possibly can.

You wrote "The question being, whether the original post is proper or a BLP violation" and in the context it is clear that you think I have not answered that question. I thought, though, that I had already answered the question about the BLP violation. Your original request for help on this page said "Another editor (μηδείς) has repeatedly hidden my question, claiming that it is "speculation" and therefore a violation of policy." I stated in my first post (point number 2) that I thought there was no "speculation", and that "Medeis's criticism was totally unfounded". I did not use the expression "BLP", becasue you had not done so in asking for help, but I thought that my reply was unequicocal: "Medeis's criticism was totally unfounded" meant that I thought that the whole of Medeis's criticism was unfounded, including the accusation of BLP violation. However, following that, you made another post in which you said that you thought that I "did not appreciate the gist of the problem". You proceeded to explain at some length what you thought the situation was, and among other things you repeatedly mentioned the issue of whether what you wrote was a BLP violation. I therefore stated my answer again, this time in more forceful terms, and made a specific point of including the expression "BLP violation" to remove any possibility of doubt: I wrote "All of that is asking for factual information, not "speculation", and to call it a "BLP violation" is absurd." I am therefore somewhat at a loss to understand your latest post, which reads as though you think I have not answered the question about whether you committed a BLP violation. It is possible that in my first answer, where I did not mention "BLP", you did not read my words as meaning that, but I don't understand how my second attempt to give my answer could be seen as anything other than a clear statement that I do not think there was a BLP violation.

In relation top the original question about Oscar Pistorius, I wrote that you had not received the answer you wanted, and were not going to. From what you now say, you regard what you did receive as containing enough of an answer to your question. However, either way, my point really was that you have received as much of an answer to your original question as you are goiong to, and nothing more is going to come, so you may as well move on.

You say "once I delete the "source", μηδείς is going to "hide" the discussion yet again." If for some reason you really care about whether a discussion which has served its purpose and run its course is hidden or not, then at present it isn't hidden, so why not just leave it as it is? That is to say, why do you need to "delete the source"? Does leaving the "source" there do any harm? (Those are rhetorical questions: I don't need or want any answers.)

You say "You asked: what does it matter, if the discussion is hidden or un-hidden? No offense, but that kind of thinking misses the whole point. If we abide by that philosophy, User μηδείς or any other user can simply – without any justification whatsoever – "hide" any post that they feel like hiding." Not so. Not for a moment did I suggest that the same principal applied to "any post that they feel like hiding": only that it applied to this post at this time.

I shall finish by emphasising once more what seems to me to be the central point here. No, you did not do anything that could reasonably be regarded as a BLP violation. Medeis was totally wrong about that, so you can stop worrying about it and move on to more productive things. The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 08:14, 12 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

• You may be interested in these edits: [7] & [8]. The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 09:07, 12 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your reply. Yes, we are clearly not communicating very well, here. Nonetheless, I will try once again.

(1) You say that there is no BLP violation; Medeis says that there is. (By the way, some other editors agree with you. And some other editors – including administrators – agree with Medeis.) So, how do we resolve that question/issue/dispute/discrepancy? If a user (like me) is accused of a BLP violation, how does that user know whether or not his actions do in fact amount to a BLP violation? Not for nothing, but just because you say that there is no violation is not dispositive of the issue. By reading your replies, you are seemingly telling me that your opinion trumps the opinion of Medeis (and those who agree with him); and that I should simply be reassured by that fact. So, in other words, why would I accept that your opinion trumps his, in assessing whether or not I have committed a BLP violation, as has been alleged? I assume if I were talking with Medeis, he would say that his opinion trumps yours. So, how can I be reassured that I did (or did not) commit a BLP violation, when there are conflicting opinions? I think that a large part of our miscommunication is that you believe that your opinion is the final opinion and that it is dispositive of my question. However, I would clearly suspect that Medeis (and those who agree with him) would take issue with that. They would not agree with you. So, I am trying to find out who is "right" in their assessment? Medeis (and his like-minded "followers") or you (and yours)? If an editor is accused of a BLP violation, that editor should be able to find out whether or not he did in fact violate BLP. Do you not agree with that? Do you think (or not think) that mine is a reasonable and a valid question?

(2) If I understand your points above, I will paraphrase as follows. You are saying the following (all of the words in italics). There is no BLP violation; Medeis is 100% wrong about that. Because Medeis is wrong about that (i.e., his accusation of a BLP violation), Medeis is also wrong to require that a source be included in order to "allow" the question to remain standing on the Reference Desk. So, am I understanding your position correctly? If not, let me know where my misunderstanding is.

(3) Assuming that I understand you correctly (via my paraphrase in Point #2 above): why are you "conceding" (to Medeis) – for lack of a better word – that I should just keep the source in? (I think this is where you are missing my point, or I am confused about yours.)

(4) I intend to go and remove the source. I feel that there is no BLP violation. Therefore, I feel it is inappropriate for Medeis (or anyone) to "require" me to post a source, in order for him to "allow" my question to remain on the Reference Desk. I anticipate (I said, anticipate ... I did not say that I know for a fact) that, once I delete the source, Medeis will (once again, as has been proven by all relevant past experience here) go in and "hide" my question (i.e., he will disallow my question from being posted). What do I do in this event?

I honestly don't know how I can make more clear my questions. The four points that I made (immediately) above are exactly the same points I made in the prior posts (far higher) above. I have simply reconfigured the wording (I guess?) in order to hopefully articulate better to you what I am saying.

In addition to the four points made above, let me ask two very direct questions. (Which are somewhat repetitive of those above.) But, as they "stand alone", perhaps there is less confusion.

(5) Question: When faced with conflicting opinions, how can I know whether or not my conduct is a BLP violation (as has been alleged)?

(6) Question: Am I required (or not) to include a source in my original post, in order for my question to be "allowed" to be asked on the Reference Desk?

Please advise. Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 23:59, 12 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Addendum: I am not sure if you saw this post. But, I wanted to bring it to your attention. This user (Guy (Help!)) posted a comment at the BLP Notice Board. I believe that this user is an administrator. As are you. Hence, the source of much of my confusion about my alleged BLP violation. His post at that BLP Notice Board is as follows (the italicized material):

Jack, you need to know two things:

1. This matter is sub judice, commenting on cases oin progress may amount to contempt of court.

2. A statement can be defamatory even if it is true.

This is nto an appropriate discussion for the refdesk. Please just drop it. Guy (Help!) 13:42, 8 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

So, I wanted to point out three things: (1) that this comment was posted; (2) that the comment was posted by an administrator; and (3) that the comment was posted on the very thread that discussed my alleged BLP violation. In fact, User Medeis said to me, in the above discussion, (in paraphrase) "If you don't want to take my word for it, I suggest that you heed the advice of the administrator at that BLP Notice Board Discussion" (referring to the Administrator "Guy"). How is it that two administrators can have such diametrically opposite opinions about a topic as important as BLP violations? If you administrators are "confused" (and in conflict), then imagine how the regular editors (e.g., I) must feel ... ? That administrator's comments seem pretty forceful and unequivocal. Pretty final and unwavering. In fact, they are downright threatening. He's not in any way suggesting that this is a gray area, open to interpretation, about which different minds may differ in opinion. It sounds like he (as an administrator) is "laying down the law". No? How is a "regular editor" (like me) supposed to make heads or tails out of two diametrically opposed "expert" (administrator) statements such as yours and his? For what it's worth, I don't see him in any way retracting his statement, so I assume that it still stands as his final word on this matter. Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 00:46, 13 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

You asked for advice from an administrator, so I gave you my opinion. Obviously I believe that my opinion is right, otherwise I wouldn't hold it, but it is just my opinion, and it doesn't "trump" anyone else's. I think that regarding a request for factual information as a BLP violation is an absurd interpretation, and I can see nothing in the BLP policy that can reasonably be read that way. However, evidently others disagree. Beyond that, you aked for advice, I have given you my advice, and it is entirely up to you whether you take it or not. The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 08:05, 13 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Perhaps I misspoke or was not entirely clear. I am not asking an administrator (you, for example) what his individual opinion is. More so, I am asking for advice on: how does one resolve this problem? And, again, given conflicting information, how does one know whether or not he has violated BLP, once he has been accused of doing so? Those are really the pressing questions (more so than "what is the opinion of one individual administrator?"). Your focus is on providing me with your opinion (which I received loud and clear quite some time ago). My focus is on resolving the issue at hand. That is the advice I am seeking when I posted the "administrator help" tag. Please advise. Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 18:33, 13 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Good grief. And you wonder why I neglected to wade into this. In future, you could try posting to WP:AN for additional eyes. –xeno^talk 18:39, 13 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Follow up[edit]

Joseph, I've mentioned you here and quoted from the above. I'll just say what you need to know: You have done nothing wrong. You have not breached BLP in any way, shape or form. Those who say otherwise are either mistaken or malicious.

Courage. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 20:40, 13 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I've also mentioned you here. Cheers. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 03:03, 14 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, Jack. Thanks for the notices above. I did review them. I have been "away" from Wikipedia for a day or two, and I am only now getting the chance to reply to you. As far as the Reference Desk / Oscar Pistorius matter: yes, that certainly turned into a fiasco. Personally, I found that the editor (and administrator) who claimed a BLP violation did so without any justification. And I also noticed that they both repeatedly ignored (i.e., did not respond to) reasonable questions asking them to explain or clarify their positions. While all of this was transpiring, I did notice that you were carrying on some parallel conversations (parallel to mine, with other editors), trying to get some answers and/or clarification. As we both know, such answers and clarifications were never put forward, from the parties alleging the BLP violation. So, many thanks for your attempting to get to the bottom of the matter. And many thanks for keeping me posted on the updates and resolution (as it were). I am not sure if you were made aware, but it seems that User μηδείς was eventually blocked for his initiation of this entire debacle. See here: [9]. Actually, I just reviewed the "block notice" on the Talk Page of User μηδείς and – for the first time, just now – I see that there was some further extended conversation about this topic. You participated in that conversation, so you are certainly aware that the block was imposed. In my opinion, that User created a big mess for no reason whatsoever. So, I am glad that this episode is now over. Ughhhhhhh. Once again, thanks! Thanks not only for your support, but also for your persistence and determination in following up on the issue and attempting to get some answers / clarification on the matter. Best, Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 17:45, 17 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, Joseph. Well, I was just as curious as you were to get to the bottom of whatever the actual "BLP violation" was, because the allegation made zero sense to me. Like you, I was amazed when neither of the two editors I approached for clarification was forthcoming. In one case, the editor has now explained they were off-site for some days due to pressing RL concerns. No such explanation has been offered by the other, the editor who referred the matter to BLPN in the first place. It is clear to me now that no explanation that had any merit could possibly have been provided, and I take silence to connote assent.

You should know that this matter has become the straw that broke the camel's back of my tolerance of that editor's general behaviour. She and I have agreed to have no further direct communication with each other for the indefinite future. For my part, that means not even referring to her or talking about her if I can help it. I need some considerable space and time completely away from that editor. In 10 years as a regular WP editor, I have had no previous experience of such a circumstance, so I'm making up the rules as I go along and trusting they will work for me. Cheers. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 18:56, 17 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Yes, I agree with all that you said above (about this alleged BLP violation). Sorry to hear that you have been having so much trouble with that one editor. I hope it all works out. Perhaps,your proposed solution is for the best. Thanks again for your help. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 21:55, 19 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Was wondering if it would be possible for someone to do a list for screenwriters as well as cinematographers, was thinking there has to be a list somewhere of this. (I have added tons of new Oscar pages as of late btw) But yeah was thinking about this, as well if there is a list of the longest living post nomination. I could of swore I've seen a list somewhere of that-then again as far as I know it might of been a message board I saw that. (I'm also wondering what studio has the most noms/wins ever, I'm guessing either Paramount or WB) Wgolf (talk) 00:11, 31 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. Thanks. (1) I think it would be virtually impossible to do the "age" list with the more obscure categories (e.g., screenwriters, cinematographers, etc.). They are not really "famous" people who are in the public eye (in the same way that actors, actresses, and directors are). So, most people in the general public "don't care" about them at all. If you did have a list, 90% of it would be incomplete or blank ... thereby, defeating the actual purpose of the list. Also, in some of those other categories, there is not only one winner each year (as there is with actors, actresses, directors, etc.). There are often two, three, four people per year who win in some of those other categories. That would be a nightmare to find all those birth dates; in fact, it would probably not even be possible. (2) I have been "out of the loop" recently as far as Oscar articles. What new ones did you create? Can you give me a list? I am always interested in Oscar articles. (3) As far as your comment about "list of the longest living post nomination" ... this is somewhat related. Here are some facts that I ran across, I found them very interesting, and – at some point – I was going to put them into Wikipedia somewhere. But I never got around to it. See this, one of my sandbox pages: User:Joseph A. Spadaro/Sandbox/Page39. Look at the two charts under the first sub-section called "Age" (as well as the But See notation right under the second chart). What do you think of that information? Do you think it's worth adding somewhere? And where? Also, I have not looked at those charts in years, so the info might be out of date. Let me know what you think about my three issues above in this post? Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 00:25, 31 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks-that is interesting, not sure if they could get there own pages but yeah it is interesting. Adding some winners I realized some I can't even find info if they are alive or not (like the editor of West Side Story, I couldn't even find a date of birth!) Wgolf (talk) 00:37, 31 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

No, certainly not their own pages. But, maybe added into "Academy Award records" or something like that? Also, please answer my question in #2 above. I asked: (2) I have been "out of the loop" recently as far as Oscar articles. What new ones did you create? Can you give me a list? I am always interested in Oscar articles. Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 00:40, 31 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Actually some films and names that have not had pages yet-check my articles I've created as I've done a lot the past few days. Wgolf (talk) 00:44, 31 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, OK. But those are just films and names? Right? No articles that are specific to the Oscars ... like "List of Academy Award blah-blah-blah" ... ? Am I right? Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 00:57, 31 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah I wanted to start a list but not sure of what. Though I did mange today get a list of the most noms/wins on the best makeup page (granted that one is easier then other cats ha ha) Well good luck editing and everything. Wgolf (talk) 01:02, 31 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Ha ha. That doesn't even count! LOL! That is a category that is like only 1 or 2 years old ?!??!?!?! LOL. Good luck. Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 01:10, 31 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Like the same age as me lol, started in the early 80s lol. I'm surprised nobody has ever done a template for visual effects, but given it's very odd history, I can see why. This list would take forever-but one of the longest living nominees period. Well have fun on here tonight lol. Wgolf (talk) 01:13, 31 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Ooops! I was wrong about that. The category is actually from the 1980's. I think the "Hairstyling" part was only added in, within the past 1 or 2 years. I think that that was what I was thinking? Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 01:15, 31 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah and I made a mistake on it or rather I forgot to put a number on one guy. (I did the same on sound editing) one problem is that some people are under alternate names sometimes. Oh well. A list I could of swore there was a page on here I've been trying to find is one of animated films nominated for an Oscar (unless if the page was taken down). Wgolf (talk) 01:26, 31 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I don't recall any such list (animated Oscar films). You can always ask at the Reference Desks. Do you ever use those? You would get an answer very quickly if you posted there. If there is indeed a Wiki article on that topic, someone would find it very quickly and point it out to you. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 03:48, 31 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

User:Wgolf/sandbox/List of Feature Length Animated films nominated for an Oscar

Granted of course there are just 2 I have so far-Snow White and Pinocchico, there are going to be some cases like Roger Rabbit where I'm not sure if I should put it or not. (Heck the Academy apparently considers Stuart Little an animated film as Stuart Little 2 was submitted in for animated feature, despite the fact it was a CGI star, I think that is going a little too technical or else Avatar should count on here) Wgolf (talk) 18:42, 31 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. I checked out that sandbox page. Looks good! What do you mean, you only have 2 so far (Snow White and Pinocchio)? That page looks like it has about 50 ... no? Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 21:14, 31 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

That was when I started it, I got up to 2000. Welcome though. (I thought of going by cat but there are too many nominated in the same categories) and thanks. Wgolf (talk) 21:16, 31 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

OK, I got ya. Good luck. That is a good idea for a new page. Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 21:18, 31 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah thanks, though of course its not ready to be an article yet. Wgolf (talk) 21:54, 31 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Not yet. Good start, though. Good luck with it! Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 22:34, 31 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Got all the films down, of course the layout will need to be fixed big time I know. Wgolf (talk) 00:34, 1 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, I agree. But, a good start. Good luck with it! Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 00:38, 1 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

And the remake I found out was The Children's Hour-it was a remake of a film called These Three. I never knew that was a remake till today. Wgolf (talk) 00:41, 1 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I never knew that until just now. Thanks! Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 00:47, 1 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

And on another amazing note, I found the earliest born film actor ever: Joseph Jefferson, whoa, 1829! Wgolf (talk) 00:49, 1 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Wow. But he died in 1905. Did they even have films at that point? Are you sure he was a film actor? Not stage? Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 03:48, 1 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Short films, such as A trip to the Moon was in 1902 lol, still cool. Wgolf (talk) 03:52, 1 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hmmmmm. Very interesting. I never knew! Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 03:54, 1 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

RE: User:Wgolf/sandbox/List of Feature Length Animated films nominated for an Oscar. Okay I'm not sure what to do with the layout now...Wgolf (talk) 19:42, 1 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. You should format all that info into a sortable table. The columns would be something like this: Year, Academy Award ceremony; Name of film; Category (of Award); Result (Nomination versus Win). Something like that. It would look similar to the chart in this page: List of Academy Awards for Walt Disney. That would be my suggestion. What do you think? Do you know how to create a Wikipedia table? If not, I can get one started for you. Let me know your thoughts. Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 01:05, 2 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks-not to sure really, yeah some help be nice, thanks! Wgolf (talk) 01:30, 2 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Here's a start (below). Let me know if you have any questions. Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 03:47, 2 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Ha thanks, of course I'll have to find a way to not have the words the, an and a not show up in alphabetical order (of course that always is a problem with spreadsheets) I've always loved Disney animation and I am excited to see how this will go. (Some categories that were nominated at the Oscars still have some missing films, surprisingly 3 films from the 1970s are missing pages for films nominated for song-I was born in the 80s so I really don't recognize them) Well thanks again Wgolf (talk) 13:55, 2 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hello. Yes, that's a very good point. I had forgotten about that issue. So, here below is an example of how you would list the film The Adventures of Tintin. If you use the "sortname" template, the film title will appear in the list as The Adventures of Tintin. However, it will sort alphabetically as Adventures of Tintin, The. In other words, the word "the" will not be used when alphabetizing the film's title; it will appear alphabetically under the word "adventures". Here is a good article for you to refer to: List of Academy Award-winning films. That Wikipedia article lists every film that has ever won any Academy Award. So, that list gives you many, many, many examples of films that have the words a, an, the, etc., in the title; and it shows exactly how they are correctly formatted in order to correctly sort alphabetically. Let me know if you have any questions or need more help with this chart. In the chart below, I just used the words "actor" and "cat" to show how the film titleThe Adventures of Tintin will sort under the word "Adventures" and not under the word "The"; and, thus, it would come in between "actor" and "cat". Of course, if it was sorted under the word "the", it would appear after the entry for "cat" in alphabetical order. Also, see this page (Template:Sortname) if you need more info and details about how the "sortname" template works exactly. Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 15:01, 2 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Oh cool, feel free to help out with the table also, I will need some links for the page of course (to the actual Oscar site for sure) Wgolf (talk) 15:58, 2 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

So, do you like the basic set-up of the chart above or no? Can you think of any columns that should be added in or removed? I was thinking of adding two additional columns ... one for how many total nominations the film received and one for how many total awards the film received. But I was not sure about that. What thoughts do you have? Also, as far as adding links, I would suggest many/most of the links found at the bottom of the Academy Awards article, in the "External links" section. Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 16:13, 2 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah kind of fell behind on this ha ha. You could help me if you like. Have a great day! Wgolf (talk) 18:42, 7 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, but you still haven't answered the questions that I asked of you. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 18:53, 7 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

It does sound good, but as for films with multiple noms like Beauty and the Beast come to play of course. Wgolf (talk) 18:58, 7 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

If a film like Beauty and the Beast had, say, six nominations ... I would give it six separate rows in the chart, one for each category/nomination. Like this:

Okay I'm making one for Folies Bergère de Paris, which is one of only 4 films to win dance direction, so yeah you can add this to the list of Oscar winning films. Now what I'm wondering is-shouldn't there be a category to put this under? I mean it be pointless to have a category for dance direction winners, so yeah what to do? Wgolf (talk) 20:04, 8 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. I am not sure what you are asking? Please clarify? Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 20:06, 8 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

There was the category of best dance direction that was only for 3 years, so wouldn't a film that won this category have a category on Wikipedia to go under? Think it would just go under Academy Award winners? Since there is none for the category it won in. (Like this film A Damsel in Distress). And yeah this film page I'm making should be added to the list of Oscar winning pages when you get a chance. Wgolf (talk) 20:09, 8 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I guess that you can make that category. But, so few films would be in that category. Maybe check what has been done for other films that also won in those short-lived types of Oscar categories? Also, what did you decide to do with my charts above (animated films)? Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 20:13, 8 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Still thinking about it-well you can add that film to the Oscar winner chart now! For some reason there were quite a few links that went to it that were spelled differently. Well good luck. Wgolf (talk) 20:43, 8 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 21:08, 8 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

When you find time for it please take a look at Battle of the elms article, for spelling check etc. Appreciate it. --BabbaQ (talk) 19:57, 3 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I will be happy to. I am just walking out the door right now. So, I will get to it later tonight or tomorrow (more likely, the former). I am curious why you asked me, though? Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 20:02, 3 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I guess I have to flatter your a bit here.. I contacted you about this because I know you are an awesome editor frankly :) And I am planning to bring the article to DYK tomorrow so a little pro-help is always needed. Oh, thank you for your assistance!--BabbaQ (talk) 20:04, 3 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. A very quick reply because I am heading out the door. Since you are bringing this to DYK tomorrow, I will be sure to get to it tonight. Some time later tonight, when I get home from my Shakespeare class! Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 20:18, 3 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

As I promised, I took the time tonight to review and edit the Elm Conflict article. It was very well done. I found only 2 or 3 very minor errors. (Perhaps, they were more stylistic preferences than they were "errors".) Good luck with the DYK; I hope it goes through! Thanks also for the kind words and the compliment you paid me. I very sincerely appreciate that. Thanks! Again, best of luck with the DYK! Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 04:10, 4 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hello. Is there some page somewhere, where editors get to vote on your nomination for DYK? I could not find it, and I would like to vote/comment in support of the nomination. Please let me know where I can find the correct page. Thanks! Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 17:15, 5 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

First of all thank you for your assistance with the article. Any help is always appreciated! :) Here is the link to the nomination. Template:Did you know nominations/Elm Conflict.--BabbaQ (talk) 17:18, 5 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I did actually see that link. But, is that where editors (like myself) actually include their "Support" or "Oppose" comments? I did not see any there (yet), so I assumed I was on the wrong page? Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 17:43, 5 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I guess that is not possible. But you can if you like weigh in on which of the blurbs to use. :)--BabbaQ (talk) 17:50, 5 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think DYK operates using !votes as many other proceedings (e.g., AfD) do. Other than the provision of comments to improve the article/nomination, the approval and selection is typically made by editors who specialize in DYK, rather than by poll. So I don't think comments to Support or Oppose are solicited there. Dwpaul ^Talk 17:50, 5 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I added my comment in support of this DYK nomination. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 16:44, 7 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. Did this ever get posted in the DYK? Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 16:41, 14 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

You find the nomination at the article talk page. Still no one has reviewed it. Sometimes it is reviewed in the same day and sometimes a month later. Cheers.--BabbaQ (talk) 16:47, 14 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Also I have just nominated the articles Rudolf Fredrik Berg and Henry Dunker that I created for DYK as well :).--BabbaQ (talk) 16:48, 14 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

OK, thanks. I was unfamiliar with how the DYK process works. Best of luck. I hope your three nominations get used in DYK! Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 22:35, 14 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Army says he's on 'regular duty' — http://bigstory.ap.org/article/bergdahl-returned-regular-army-duty :Sca (talk) 14:46, 14 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Yes, that was the very first news story that I saw this morning. In the news report that I read, it said that he will be meeting with investigators who will inquire about the night of his disappearance. Thanks! Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 18:11, 14 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

NYT had a piece a few days ago (reprinted in Boise's alleged newspaper) about his personal history, estrangement from parents, experiments with different lifestyles, etc. Having worked there some years ago, I'm familiar with the insular and highly ... obstreperous? ... atmosphere of that area, dominated by the $un Valley $ki Re$ort, with its multimillion-dollar vacation "homes" and scores of tony eateries. [10] Sca (talk) 21:14, 14 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I'd like to see that NYT piece. I tried to find it, but no luck. Do you have a link? From all that I see, that Bergdahl seems like a bit of an odd duck, like he's "off the beaten path" and "marches to his own drummer". I am not impressed with his Dad, either. The apple never falls far from the tree. Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 21:20, 14 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Um, there is a link after "eateries" above. Sca (talk) 21:30, 14 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Wow, thanks. I totally missed that! Thanks. I will read it now. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 21:33, 14 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Another story today. [11] (Let me know if you've had enough of them.) Sca (talk) 14:57, 15 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks again. I just read that article you sent me. A very strange and bizarre case. Something seems amiss, here. My personal opinion: this kid has a few screws loose. Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 16:55, 15 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

At this point in life my opinion is, everyone's weird in some way (except me, of course). Sca (talk) 17:57, 15 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Just now, I just saw another news report. Bergdahl refuses to speak to his parents. Something is very fishy; something is not adding up. This kid is a major head case. Probably, the parents are, also. Have to wait and see what the investigation uncovers. Who remains a POW for five years and then refuses to speak with their parents when they are freed?!?!?!? Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 18:02, 15 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

There are a lot of strange people in the Wood River Valley, trust me. Been there. Sca (talk) 21:11, 15 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]