User talk:Actuarialninja

Hello, Actuarialninja, and Welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions to this free encyclopedia. If you decide that you need help, check out Getting Help below, ask me on my talk page, or place {{Help me}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Please remember to sign your name on talk pages by using four tildes (~~~~) or by clicking if shown; this will automatically produce your username and the date. Also, please do your best to always fill in the edit summary field with your edits. Below are some useful links to facilitate your involvement. Happy editing! Ronz (talk) 21:32, 1 October 2017 (UTC)[reply] Getting started A tutorial • Our five pillars • Getting mentored How to: Edit a page • Upload and use images • Create your first article Intuitive guide to Wikipedia • Article Creation Wizard Getting help Frequently asked questions • Tips Where to ask questions or make comments Request administrator attention Help desk: A Wiki Styled page to ask questions on Help directory: A comprehensive list-style help contents page Policies and guidelines Neutral point of view • No original research Verifiability • Reliable sources • Citing sources What Wikipedia is not • Biographies of living persons List of policies • Three-revert rule • Sock puppetry Copyrights • Policy for non-free content • Image use policy External links • Spam • Vandalism • List of guidelines Deletion policy • Conflict of interest • Notability The community Build consensus • Resolve disputes Assume good faith • Civility • Etiquette No personal attacks • No legal threats Community portal • Village pump Signpost • IRC channels • Mailing lists Writing articles Be bold in editing • Develop an article The perfect article • Simplified manual of style Stubs • Categories • Disambiguation Peer review • Featured content Miscellaneous User pages • Talk pages Awards a registered contributor can achieve and award Clean up: General • Spam • Vandalism Join a WikiProject • Translation Useful templates • Tools • User scripts

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Hi there. This has all been laid out many times before. Please read the argument on the talk page - over the last three weeks or so. Multiple C14 experts and textile experts who have actually examined the shroud have stated emphatically that scrutiny with modern microscopes and photographs show there is zero evidence of a medieval repair, and that a contamination sufficient to swing the dating that far would have required a quantity of contaminant in excess of double the weight of the original fabric. That's hard science, and it's all in the references. Wdford (talk) 21:10, 31 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. It would help immensely if you dealt with what I actually said, and not try demolishing straw men. When you say “a contamination sufficient to swing the dating that far” (emphasis added), you are already assuming I put some fixed date on the Shroud. I did nothing of the sort. Also, how far back are you talking anyway? (Your comment didn’t say, but your sources seem to converge on refuting the 1st century AD hypothesis, so let’s go with that for now…)

It may seem like I am needlessly nitpicking, but this is important because for this discussion we are now dealing with two separate hypotheses: I) that the Shroud dates to the 1st century AD, and II) there is the introduction of medieval material in the C14 sample. I myself am only concerned with hypothesis II, and only to show there are credible people arguing both sides (and not argue in favor of one hypothesis over another). For my edit, I am proposing rewording to a statement that is true, promotes a more neutral POV, and is easily supported by the sources. Also, I find such wording as “all hypotheses of X have been scientifically refuted” to be problematic for several reasons (partly because it is an all encompassing statement. I can elaborate if you want, but for now, I want to keep this as brief as possible.)

Lastly, I did look at the talk page, and am well aware of the arguments made in terms of the amount of contamination necessary and so on (it is the same argument that appears several times in the sources). I also went through the sources supporting your preferred wording. In Dec 2017, you were open to changing the wording to something like "Although three radiocarbon dating tests in 1988 dated a sample of the cloth to the Middle Ages, other factors nonetheless lead some people to believe that this is the actual burial shroud that wrapped Jesus's body after the crucifixion." I think my proposed wording is better than this proposal. Actuarialninja (talk) 02:35, 1 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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