Template talk:Merseytravel City Line

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Have set up this Template as it was the only one missing in the Merseyrail Network. I'm not the sharpest tool in the box when it comes to Wiki work but i thought i could do this seems i am having quite a bit of trouble. If anyone can help? There is a City Line map diagram already in place i don't know how to link this. How do you end a redirect as all i keep doing is blanking the page which is not what i want. The "edit" of the template has disappeared. Babydoll9799 (talk) 11:59, 7 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

With this template now set up, i wondered how far the template should include stations? On the Merseyrail (Electrics) they go outside the Merseyside boundary, should these branches on he City line go as far as Wigan / Warrington and or further? Open to discussion? Babydoll9799 13:38, 8 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I've taken them as far as what I believe to be the boundary of Merseyside Passenger Transport Executive, which I've taken as the boundaries between:

• Metropolitan Borough of St Helens and Metropolitan Borough of Wigan so Garswood is in, Bryn is out
• by the same reasoning, Newton-le-Willows is in, Patricroft is out (the latter is some distance away, in the City of Salford)
• Metropolitan Borough of Knowsley and Halton Unitary Authority, so Halewood is in, Hough Green is out
• Metropolitan Borough of Liverpool and Halton Unitary Authority, so Liverpool South Parkway is in, Runcorn is out

I do realise that all of these routes go further - sometimes much further (Crewe, Manchester, Preston, even Blackpool). Alone among the four City Line routes, the all-stations service via St. Helens Central normally terminates not far outside the boundary, at Wigan (NW), so we could throw in Bryn and Wigan North Western too, but then we'd have to justify why Hough Green was excluded (it's 500 metres (550 yd) outside the boundary), which if included opens up a string of "but why not also" and before you know it we're at Manchester Oxford Road. Mancunians won't want to be associated with the activities on Merseyside... --Redrose64 (talk) 15:37, 8 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I can go along with that. I would have copied the Merseyrail map and that would justify the inclusion as far as Wigan, Warrington, Crewe etc. Inviteably there would be a question of whether or not you would call those stations "Merseyrail City Line stations" as they are obviously not, but they are on the network. I would leave it open to debate, the main thing is the City Line template is up and running. Babydoll9799 (talk) 16:10, 8 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Right, let's see if anybody complains. --Redrose64 (talk) 16:27, 8 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

What if the template was expanded to include those on the Merseyrail Map such as Wigan North Western, and the 4th line to Crewe, but not actually adding the template to these other stations? I don't see how anyone can object to this as they are stations included on the City Line (Chester is a good example to compare where it is outside Merseyside). Babydoll9799 (talk) 16:19, 11 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I think the thing about Chester (and indeed Ormskirk) is that the Merseyrail trains cannot physically run any further, because the third rail electrification ends at those points; the Northern and Wirral Lines are pretty much self-contained, so the inclusion of three Northern and seven Wirral stations which are outside the MPTE area is not so bad. By comparison, City Line trains are operated either by Diesel trains which can go pretty much anywhere, or by 25kV EMUs which could run beyond Crewe to Birmingham or even London, so we do need to set a boundary: the MPTE boundary has the benefit of not being as arbitrary as a map edge might be.

Please could you provide a link to this Merseyrail map? --Redrose64 (talk) 17:38, 11 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The map i refer to from Merseytravel is here ^[1]. I totally agree about the difference with the City Line trains such as the route to Chester being self contained. The Merseytravel Merseyrail map kind of sets its own unofficial boundary. What i do know is they have added the route beyond Preston to Blackpool in recent years, as it only used to show up to Preston. Babydoll9799 (talk) 14:19, 12 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

(I dont know if the link i did to the map is working it's on here (PDF), retrieved 12 February 2011 anyway) Babydoll9799 (talk) 14:38, 12 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. The problem was because you put it inside <ref>...</ref> tags, so it's not showing because there is no references section for the link to appear in. Using {{citation}} does work, but is a bit OTT. These methods all work:

bare URL - http://www.merseytravel.gov.uk/pdf/MerseyrailNetworkMap.pdf

URL inside square brackets - [1]

URL inside square brackets with title - here

Looking at the red routes on that map, I see it goes all the way to Blackpool. The National Rail Timetable for the route is Table 90, and examining the mileages down the side of that, I see that Blackpool North is 52+1⁄2 miles (84.5 km) from Liverpool Lime Street. Since Garswood is 15 mi (24 km), I think that Blackpool is way too far.

I do note from the map that Hough Green is within the yellow area, so we can justifiably add that; but not Widnes. --Redrose64 (talk) 18:04, 12 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your help. I understand there will be some significant electrification on the City Line routes, so who knows what the future will bring to the Merseyrail network? Babydoll9799 (talk) 13:53, 14 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed; I've heard that these plans include Edge Hill to Wigan and Edge Hill to Manchester. Since I can't believe that they'd use anything other than 25 kV AC electrification, ie the same as is already used for Lime Street-Crewe and Warrington BQ-Preston, electric trains will have the potential to run long distances, potentially to Glasgow or Edinburgh. Thus my comments of 17:38, 11 February 2011 apply here too. Let's stick with the yellow-shaded area, in connection with which I see you've added Hough Green, which is fine by me. --Redrose64 (talk) 15:23, 14 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]