User talk:Aleksandr Grigoryev

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Hello Aleksandr Grigoryev! Welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. If you decide that you need help, check out Getting Help below, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Please remember to sign your name on talk pages by clicking or using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. Finally, please do your best to always fill in the edit summary field. Below are some useful links to facilitate your involvement. Happy editing! Urania3 22:37, 11 November 2006 (UTC)[reply] Getting Started Wikipedia Tutorial • The five pillars of Wikipedia How to: edit a page • upload an image Getting Help Frequently Asked Questions Where to ask questions or make comments Request administrator attention Policies and Guidelines Neutral point of view • Reliable sources Verifiability • Citing sources • No original research What Wikipedia is not • Biographies of living persons Manual of Style • Three-revert rule • Sock puppetry Copyrights • Fair use • Image use policy External links • Spam • Vandalism Deletion policy • Conflict of interest • Notability The Community Build consensus • Resolving disputes Assume good faith • Civility • Etiquette No personal attacks • No legal threats Community Portal • Village pump Signpost • IRC channels • Mailing lists Things to do Be bold in editing • Help develop an article Pages needing attention • Peer review Join a WikiProject • Translating articles Cleaning up: General • Spam • Vandalism Miscellaneous Useful templates • Categories • Stubs User pages • Talk pages Tools • User scripts

Aleksandr Grigoryev, WarthogDemon has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling at someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Go on, smile! Cheers, and happy editing!
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-WarthogDemon 06:00, 20 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, Aleksandr! It seems there with the recent addition of the "united territorial communities" (OTT) to the Administrative divisions of Ukraine by Yulia Romero, it throws the page back into chaos. I was discussing with her about this new form of government, and she linked me to an article (https://www.radiosvoboda.org/a/28757609.html), and the article - if my translation was correct - seems to imply that these are in fact not voluntary. It also appears the new law creating them totally redid the administrative divisions of the country. It says the law splits the country into only three divisions, now: Regions, Counties (though, maybe this is still Raion?), and the "Communities." At the same time, it seems that a district would have to meet a certian population threshold to become a "united territorial community". So, in districts that didn't meet the requirement, they'd still be divided into the existing counciles (i.e. cities of district significant, settlement councils, and rural councils). It's also not entirely clear even in those districts that meet the threshold if EVERY community merges into one another, or if each community has a choice to join the OTT. And in that case, what would be the "county" level which oversees the cities left out of the OTT?

I'm probably reading this wrong. If you could read this and let me know what the new law did and didn't do, that would be great. In fact, it'd be nice to see a copy of the law, itself, as that would answer all of these questions. --Criticalthinker (talk) 00:53, 5 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Yea, it has been ongoing since 2015 as part of the administrative-territorial reform. It is pretty confusing. But it is not just about the numbers. There is a process that take place behind a scene. One has to follow closely on updates for that certain community that goes through the administrative-territorial reform. I do not really follow on that subject. I might be too sceptical, but it looks to me like as the process with the police reform that was supposed to make impact, but instead turn out to be a change of label and more funds deficiency out of the state budget. About those communities, Ukrainian Wikipedia has pretty good articles with tables and stuff. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 02:55, 8 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Criticalthinker, that is a great article. It is written by former parliamentary and deputy minister Doctor Technical Sciences Mykhailo Pozhyvanov. He points out to the fact that the law goes against to what it is stated in the Constitution of Ukraine. It is pretty clearly proscribed. He also points to what I find awkward that those communities are being created within a district (raion) with the old system of administration. Also those districts could have both and those communities as well as the old councils. According to Dr. Pozhyvanov those new communities are not like community organizations, but rather as organized crime groups that are being united under a bigger landowner who is in the parliament. It sounds simply like a political speculation of someone who is bitter about a loss of something, but there could be some grain of truth. (here is a wikilink to the Ukrainian Wikipedia article about the new and greatest united communities uk:Список об'єднаних територіальних громад України). Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 03:20, 8 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Criticalthinker, the whole administrative territorial reform was supposed to take place with the adaptation of the Constitution of Ukraine back in 1996, but was constantly postponed (just like the Ukrainian census that was taken only once in 2001). Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 03:25, 8 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Criticalthinker, here is the copy of the law. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 04:46, 8 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Honestly, what I'm interested in is whether the administrative subdivisions page (in English) needs to be updated further to reflect any changes to the existing units at this level (i.e. cities of district significance, settlement councils, and rural councils). What I'm still unsure of is kind of what I talked about above including:

1. Does this level of government merge the existing lower-level councils in the districts that become OTTs, or do they retain their local governance?

2. How exactly is it decided (at which level) which districts become OTTs? Must each constituent council vote affirmatively, or is it decided by a vote of the entire population of the district in a majority vote?

According to Yulia's update of the page, 252 districts have already chosen to become OTTs and have thus already voted in a new council. Elections for another 226 are coming this year and next year. What I'm concerned about is whether the cities, settlements and rural councils in these OTTs cease to exist or not, because they would require a lot of work in updating numbers and such. I want to ask DDima about this, but he doesn't appear to be active at the moment from what I can gather. --Criticalthinker (talk) 05:55, 8 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

So, I have translated down to Article 8 of the law you linked me to. Unfortunately, online translators really stink at English to Ukrainian translations. But what I got is that initially while the existing councils within a district continue to exist, that after a certain amount of time, the OTT can begin to abolish the city, settlement and rural councils within the new territory. As to the question about who and at which level it is decided for a district to become an OTT, this is something less clear to me as the translation is power. It both sounds like that an OTT doesn't have to include every local council in an existing district, and that it can actually include local councils in adjacent districts. So it sounds like the districts aren't necessarily the building buildings of an OTT, rather the local councils themselves. What confuses me is that say every local council but a single on in a district decides to be an OTT; what happens to the district goverment after the other communities become an OTT if there is only one local council left in that former district? Are there any cases of all of the councils of a district wanting to be excluded from an OTT, who becomes the district council over them? Yes, I guess what would be easiest to pick a particular example of an OTT, and see how it was formed and from which local councils it was formed. This would explain a lot. --Criticalthinker (talk) 06:25, 8 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Criticalthinker, you are correct. It is not fully and explicitly proscribed. At this time it is decided to allow local councils to reform into those united communities, and after that we will think about. The main point is that either local councils nor united communities are proscribed in the Constitution of Ukraine, therefore there is no conflict. Supposedly the next step is that those communities will be organized into counties (povits) to replace districts (raions). However, those districts are mentioned in the Constitution as part of the administrative-territorial system in the country. So, in order to start to form those counties, a constitutional reform should take place. Waging a semi-concealed armed conflict with Russia that invaded territories of eastern and south Ukraine, the government of Ukraine avoids to start the constitutional reform. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 15:28, 8 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Criticalthinker, it is not districts that are being reformed into united communities, but rather local councils that are part of districts. The local councils are being encouraged to merge with others becoming united communities. The word «united» is not a random word, it also carries a certain meaning. There is a demographic problem in the country and many local communities are becoming less populated which causes certain issues in regards to public services such as hospitalization, fire services, and other. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 15:35, 8 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Are there any examples of current OTTs and how they relate to the districts of which they are/we a part of? For example, when a city (of district significance) unites with most of its surrounding settlement and rural councils, does the district's government cease to operate? Or does that district's government continue to exist along with the OTT? It sounds like at least initially, the newly formed OTT council is still an administrative level below a district/raion council, but that after the other lower-level councils within the OTT are abolished that it rises to district level? Again, an example of an OTT to see what it's current status is would be very helpful in this discussion. --Criticalthinker (talk) 11:09, 9 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Criticalthinker, I already provided you with an article from the Ukrainian Wikipedia higher. Here it is again: uk:Список об'єднаних територіальних громад України (List of united territorial communities of Ukraine). It looks like someone does follow on the subject and updates the list pretty consistently. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 14:54, 9 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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Please read WP:COPYWITHIN before copying large chunks from one article to another; better yet, consider how much is really needed at the destination, and summarise. Pinkbeast (talk) 14:22, 12 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Pinkbeast, involvement of Russian so-called "volunteers" (or little and very polite green men) in Bosnian conflict is known very well throughout the post-Soviet states. There is a very well established euphemism of those state-sponsored "volunteers". Yet the article completely lacks that fact. How is that possible? Instead of being added to the main article, information about Russian "volunteers" is only mentioned in some side article. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 16:14, 12 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

This has nothing to do with what I said. Please read WP:COPYWITHIN.

As regards the rest, even the giant block of text you added did not in any way suggest the Russians were not volunteers. I'm not saying they were! I am only too well aware that meddling in the rest of Europe did not begin with Vladimir Putin. But if the infobox is going to say it, the article must say it, and if the article is going to say it we must have cites to support it. Pinkbeast (talk) 21:45, 12 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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