User talk:HTGS

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Hello. I see that you've blanked the redirect, apparently with the edit summary that you were deleting the redirect. However, please be noted that blanking a redirect is not tantamount into deleting the redirect, and that deletions must be either deleted through speedy deletions if it fits one of the criterion of WP:CSD or discussion in WP:RFD. Plus, since this was a redirect from a move, I've restored the redirect for now. If you have any questions or comments, please leave a message on my talk page. Thanks. KJ ^{«Click Here»} 03:45, 8 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hi,
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Thank you for the positive message sent four days ago regarding my editorial work on the Revised NEO Personality Inventory.Iss246 (talk) 21:06, 13 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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@HTGS: I'm less than expert in WP categories but I know some editors care a lot about them. You have decided what constitutes a food and drink company of New Zealand. I think you must state at the top of the category page how you define the category. Don't you? Eddaido (talk) 02:44, 19 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Eddaido, I actually thought the category was quite straightforward. Can you explain which pages you're thinking about in particular? I've just changed a whole handful, but I wouldn't have thought any were controversial—it's possible I've made a mistake though. — HTGS (talk) 03:06, 19 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Well, you would wouldn't you. Please would you state what you believe to be a food and drink company of new zealand. NZ makes food and drink for export, that is to say: meat and butter and milk. How do you imagine it would be able to buy all those cars if it did not? Eh? Eddaido (talk) 03:17, 19 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Frankly, I don't entirely understand your point. I am happy to add a brief description to the category page, but then, so could you, so I'm not sure why you're asking me to do it? If I add something like, New Zealand companies which are involved in the production or sale of food and beverages, I don't see that as adding much more guidance than the category title already implies, and as I said, it's not like it's a complicated or controversial category. — HTGS (talk) 03:27, 19 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

You have chosen to change the use of the category. You need to explain what you have done. I do recognise you are functioning under a pseudonym and you probably see yourself as highly ranked in the hierarchy BUT you must tell us what YOU think belongs in that category. Please. Eddaido (talk) 03:33, 19 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Eddaido, pretend I'm brand spanking new to Wikipedia, and explain to me what you think is wrong with my recent edits. I'm seriously open to criticism, but I don't see how my edits aren't perfectly in line with Wikipedia guidance and policy. I'm also not sure at all who you think "us" is, nor where or why I would explain myself to you all. Otherwise go do something productive elsewhere. — HTGS (talk) 03:48, 19 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It occurs to me that you may not understand how subcategories work. I recently moved some pages out of Category:Food and drink companies of New Zealand, and into a subcategory. This does not remove them from the food and drink category, as the subcats (eg, Category:Beverage companies of New Zealand) are wholly contained by the supercategory. In this sense, I have not changed the "use of the category", but merely rearranged and corrected some categorisations. Let me know if this helps. — HTGS (talk) 04:05, 19 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Here we seem to have many immigrants of high ability with a poor understanding of how this country works. Some long time ago someone quite rationally put a meat / freezing company into that particular category and now you have removed it. Why did you remove it?

Now, by your same token why should Qwirkle explain himself to anyone at all? He will go on forever.

Look at all the havoc he is created on my work over the past three years.

Thank God you are giving him some attention. Eddaido (talk) 10:26, 19 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

You think I’m an immigrant? Shoot straight, Eddaido. I don’t have time to argue with you if you don’t make yourself clear.

I don't know, are you an immigrant? I don't think I said you are an immigrant. You don't shoot straight do you.Eddaido (talk) 03:44, 20 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Nelson brothers? That company is still categorised as meat processing, which is a subcat of food manufacturing, which itself is a subcat of food and drink companies. It’s still a food and drink company, it’s just listed more specifically. We don’t list things as both felines and mammals. One (the more specific) is enough.

I hope you’re not making presumptions of ownership. You don’t seem to have made huge efforts to reach consensus on at least Roi-des-Belges. I can only guess that the two of you haven’t really discussed much elsewhere. — HTGS (talk) 20:58, 19 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It seems I upset Quirkle years ago and he has become, as his mind further deteriorates, a kind of desperate crab on my toe. Important people like yourself can use a bit of software within WP and see our hundreds of interactions. i.e. those of me and quirkle. He doesn't stop until thinks I've let him win. Eddaido (talk) 03:44, 20 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

New reply DFW FAA Brianvators (talk) 20:47, 27 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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Hi HTGS, The image you removed from the article Gender bias on Wikipedia is published by the author with a CC-BY-SA license, please look at the source https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/14614448211023772 . Thats why I reverted your removal. Regards, Ellywa (talk) 07:09, 8 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks a bunch. I did actually check the paper, thinking they might have released their figures, but couldn’t see anything about them being cc licensed (I still can’t even find it now lol, but I believe you). — HTGS (talk) 10:14, 8 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. The publishing website is full of logos, but if you know where to look the ccby logo is at the top right. Thanks to ms. Tripodi. Ellywa (talk) 11:15, 8 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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Thank you for restoring my revision on iPad Air 2 article. Because you are an extended confirmed user for over 10 years, I was strongly recommend you to request adminship. Guest Kashapov (talk) 13:13, 12 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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Please be aware that your signature uses deprecated <font> tags, which are causing Obsolete HTML tags lint errors. As explained at WP:SIGFONT:

<font>...</font> tags were deprecated in HTML4 and are entirely obsolete in HTML5. This means that the popular browsers may drop support for them at some point. Wikipedia is already preparing for this by delinting code project-wide through Linter. When support finally is dropped, the tags will be ignored in all signatures; any properties such as color and font family will revert to their default values. For this reason, it is recommended that you use <span>...</span> tags and CSS properties instead.

I have prepared a replacement signature string for you. You are encouraged to change

<font face="Avenir, Tenorite, Verdana, sans-serif">—&nbsp;<span style="border-radius:0.25em;padding:1px 4px 0;background:#faededAF">[[User:HTGS|HTGS]]</span>&nbsp;([[User talk:HTGS|talk]])</font> : — HTGS (talk)

to

<span style="font-family:Avenir, Tenorite, Verdana, sans-serif">—&nbsp;<span style="border-radius:0.25em;padding:1px 4px 0;background:#faededAF">[[User:HTGS|HTGS]]</span>&nbsp;([[User talk:HTGS|talk]])</span> : — HTGS (talk)

—Anomalocaris (talk) 20:31, 23 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, Anomalocaris! I've changed it now. (I'm sure at one point I used those tags for length, but that's clearly not important as it is.) — HTGS (talk) 21:47, 23 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

And thank you for updating your signature! You're right, HTML5-compliant markup is sometimes a little longer than non-HTML5-compliant markup. Your signature still has some "head room", though, as your signature markup is now 208 characters, and the limit is 255 characters. —Anomalocaris (talk) 22:40, 23 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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Discussion of another user's conduct is always off-topic if it isn't posted on WP:ANI or the user's talk page. Common on the content of the arguments, not the conduct of the people who said them. See:

• WP:NPA (Similarly, discussion of a user's conduct or history is not in itself a personal attack when done in the appropriate forum for such discussion (for example, the other editor's talk page, or Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents)
• WP:ASPERSIONS (Legitimate concerns of fellow editors' conduct should be raised either directly with the editor in question, in a civil fashion, or if necessary on an appropriate noticeboard or dispute-resolution page)

Your comment besmirched my reputation. It accused me of doing something that you find improper. Do not post such comments on pages other than WP:ANI or user talk pages. If you had an issue with my closing those moves, you should have brought it up on my talk page, as is described in detail by Wikipedia:Move review. If you had an issue with my commenting on that RfC, likewise, you should have brought it up on my talk page. — Shibbolethink ^{(♔ ♕)} 04:16, 2 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It was not my intention to make accusations of "misbehaviour" so much as to mention specific actions you took relating to the case at hand. I certainly didn't wander over to unrelated pages, calling you names or accusing you of crimes, with or without evidence, with or without intention of besmirching your name. As you stated, my comment verged on aspersions, but in my (biased) opinion, it did not step over that line.

Either way, I'm not here to play internet games with you. We both have better ways to spend our time. — HTGS (talk) 05:01, 2 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, I am new to Wikipedia so am not sure how to go about doing this. Please redirect me if this is the wrong place. A while ago the Wikipedia page for the Triggernometry podcast was changed into a redirect to the Wiki page for one of the podcast hosts. However, there are now a larger number of articles which reference and talk about the podcast. There is also more evidence of the impact it has had. What is the method for restoring the page with the additional new evidence? Cheers. Jschanna7 (talk) 11:43, 3 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Jschanna7. Can you list some of those more reliable sources here? — HTGS (talk) 00:22, 4 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Sure, here are a few examples. Here's an example of the impact - the podcast is growing in popularity as a way to hear opinions they likely won't hear from traditional sources. Here's a link showing the podcast has been a way to guests to gain a larger following and change the public conversation about race. Here's a link where a prominent British journalist claims the podcast is being shadowbanned by YouTube. Here's another link about shadowbanning. Is this what you had in mind? Cheers, J. Jschanna7 (talk) 21:15, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Honestly, I don't see an undelete review being successful with those sources. It's worth taking your time to review the general notability guidelines. We would need (a) multiple sources that are (b) generally accepted as reliable (the Daily Mail has been counted out on that), which constitute (c) "significant coverage" of the topic and are (d) independent of the topic.

• The Conservative Home source doesn't meet (b) or (c).
• iNews doesn't meet (c) and possibly doesn't meet (b).
• The Daily Mail opinion piece doesn't meet (b), and definitely doesn't meet (d). It probably wouldn't be enough for (c) either tbh.
• The Spiked source doesn't meet (c), and may or may not meet any of the others, but overall there isn't nearly enough here to constitute (a).

Hope this helps. Do let me know if you find more coverage, especially where it covers the podcast itself.

Cheers — HTGS (talk) 21:48, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Cheers for the heads up, will be in touch in the future :) Jschanna7 (talk) 07:40, 26 October 2021 (UTC).[reply]

Hi, I have now come across some coverage of the podcast from reputable sources, as defined by Wikipedia. Jschanna7 (talk) 20:09, 15 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Mōrena HTGS – I'm reaching out mainly in response to your recent edit on Ashley River / Rakahuri, but obviously it's in the context of similar edits on dual names which we've engaged on in the past. Rather than go through our usual cycle on this, I figured it might be more productive to get in touch directly and try figure out if there's some way to resolve this impasse, noting that there was already consensus for just using the dual name in these cases due to the overlap? Turnagra (talk) 19:47, 19 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Kia ora, Turnagra. I have to say, I feel so much happier talking to you when not in the context of argument, or maybe it’s just not in front of other people—strange what a subtle difference makes, huh? We should get a drink sometime. I’ll buy. And I mean that genuinely, not just as something to say politely. I’m in Dunedin, and I get the feeling you’re in the South Island too? (Just based on edits, but that’s pretty much just a hunch..) I don’t travel as much as I used to, but there’s good chance we both end up on the same whenua at some point, so let me know. You can email me too, if you prefer that discretion on personal location etc (Special:EmailUser/HTGS). A couple of zealots like us should get on like a house on fire, right? hahaha 😅

I didn’t have much say in that conversation on lead sentences, mostly because I generally view that sort of ruling-from-on-high as a bad approach to Wikipedia (though I admit wiki governance philosophy is a complex beast, and you’ll probably find confusing that statement in relation to my adoration for much of our high level policy). As you’re also aware, I also didn’t see enough consensus in that particular conversation to suggest that we always structure the lead sentence the same way. There are enough different places with different naming histories that I don’t see a one-size-fits-all approach as sensible—an approach that I have an aversion to in many contexts of Wikipedia. (Actually, maybe it’s clearer to say that I don’t like the prediction aspect of that sort of ruling.)

For leads, I generally want to give the reader more context, rather than less. And so for the specific example at hand—and it is a good example for many (but not necessarily even most) other NZ places: my take is that we should let the reader know the common name, the Māori name, and the official name. The structure I prefer is to lead with the common name (which is undisputed in the case of the Ashley), then give the Māori name in parentheses, followed by the official name. This way the reader can understand the context for the dual name (that it is from component Māori and English names). I do not assume our readers are from New Zealand, nor that they understand what Māori is, so giving the Māori name establishes both the importance of the language for our land, and the source of this funny-looking word. They have the link to Māori for more information on the language, and the {{lang}} tag will (one day) allow speech readers to pronounce Rakahuri correctly for those who cannot (or choose not to) read the text visually from a screen. The setup with the Māori then the dual name also avoids putting part of the dual name into a lang tag, so we don’t have to argue about whether Rakahuri as a component of the dual name is part of English yet.

I am flexible though, and I could see some places better suited to have the dual name out of the parenthetical, or some might suggest that the whole thing is messy, and better suited to an end footnote. Personally I dislike that solution for places with only a couple of names though, as it relegates what I see as important naming information to the end of the article… but that’s just a personal take.

You’ve probably noticed I have changed a few leads, but I haven’t made a concerted campaign of it; where the common name is clearly the dual name a different structure will be needed, and maybe the dual-name-alone is the right one there. I try not to predict that from on high—see that Aussie RFC for more of my attitude against these sort of blanket rulings (because I’m sure you SoOo love reading more of my spouting on haha). — HTGS (talk) 00:09, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, same to you – I'm normally Pōneke-based, but I'm down south a fair bit (not usually as far south as you though, unfortunately!) Feel free to hit me up if you ever find yourself in the capital.

As for your points, I can totally see where you're coming from (especially in that wiki governance is near-incomprehensible). The main reason why I figured it'd be better to get a WPNZ-level consensus on this, at the very least, was that it seems we (by which I mean the wider we, not just the two of us – even if it is us more often than not) end up having the exact same conversation on multiple pages, which absolutely gets tiring. Dual names seemed to me to be a nice, discrete little group where you could have some clear criteria to get a consistent approach across the set and save having to relitigate it every time.

I also absolutely agree that it's worth giving people context, but I wonder whether it's more confusing to have each part of the name repeated twice (on its own and as part of the dual name) than it would be to just have the dual name in the lede, and then an expanded name section further below? As to your point about the lang tag, I don't necessarily have an issue with that (especially if it's along the lines of the one on the dual name portion of Clutha River / Mata-Au's lede), as that can be done in a way which is fairly unobtrusive and still helps people less familiar with it. I feel like this sort of approach could be useful for some of the other Māori-origin words which have been adopted by NZ English (eg. having the first mention of Pākehā or iwi on a page with the same unobtrusive Māori-language thing, even though they're widely-used in NZ English.

I can definitely see instances where it'd be useful to have multiple names there too, particularly where there are names not captured by the dual name. One that comes to mind would be Te Hauturu-o-Toi / Little Barrier Island, which is frequently known in Māori just as Hauturu, or The Pyramid / Tarakoikoia, which also has the Moriori name of Tcharako. So yeah, I guess what I'm trying to say is that I definitely agree that there's a need for some degree of nuance, but also that a base level of consensus would probably save a great deal of time and hassle (not to mention likely prolong my life a bit!) Turnagra (talk) 06:38, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, so as you might gather, my concern is that such a guideline about the lead sentence has great potential to end up over-applied, misinterpreted or just deliberately mis-applied like NCNZ did (where interpretation allowed for any use of the dual name to mean that the given page should sit at the dual name). As that guideline was in opposition to COMMONNAME, I fear that your suggested guideline will be in opposition to ALTNAMES.

But, in the interest of momentum, let's imagine the smallest, least-problematic guideline I might agree to. Let's say that when the dual name is certainly the most common name and there are no other significant names in Māori or Moriori (or similar cases), we put the dual name alone in the lead. I might agree to that, but rare are the cases where the English (or older) portions of the dual name aren't still in very common use, so it feels misrepresentative to list the dual name, not telling readers what the place is (also) commonly called. Even you will admit that Aoraki / Mount Cook is very frequently called Mount Cook, surely? And it still omits the Māori language name and link to Māori, which are (at least) informative to foreigners.

Of course this all comes back again to our different takes on the encyclopaedia. I can't discern your exact reasoning or motives, but your actions almost always read as “dual names and dual names only”. I'm sure I don't need to tell you this, but I really dislike this take. I'm for Wikipedia representing the world as it is, and I'm for giving people the full picture (when possible). The vast majority of New Zealanders don't use dual names. That certainly doesn't mean they shouldn't be on Wikipedia. Similar for Australian places: I definitely want the indigenous names—and dual names—listed, but I don't want them used in place of the names English speakers actually use. — HTGS (talk) 04:45, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I think this is the crux of the difference in our takes, as I don't see using the dual name exclusively in the lede as omitting the other names – with Aoraki / Mount Cook for instance, both Aoraki and Mount Cook are still there. Using it in these contexts prevents awkward and repetitive sentences like "Aoraki / Mount Cook (Māori: Aoraki), also known as Mount Cook". I can appreciate your rationale for including that information, but I feel as though there is a more elegant solution to its inclusion than that. We talked in that NZNC discussion about having a naming section for places with bigger articles, while that information could also be covered through sentences in the lede as well.

One of the issues I see with this whole furore has been that there are a few different aspects of the discussion which each have their own nuances. The discussion about dual names as titles is different to the one about dual names in the lede, which are both different to the use of dual names in the body. My general approach to the latter is similar to how I think it generally works in practice - once the dual name has been established, I tend to use either name interchangeably or whichever is more appropriate (eg. the Māori name when discussing pre-European history, or the English name at the time of the events being discussed).

For the lede, it's pretty much what I described above in that the dual name alone (with a brief explanation in the lede or a more fulsome one in the body) is a far cleaner way of presenting the information, and less confusing than someone without context wondering why there are three names there, two of them repeated. As for the titles, the long and short of it is that I don't see any downside to having them. I do think you're underestimating the amount of people who use dual names, not to mention a sizeable group who will just use the Māori name (which could entirely be down to the difference in our experiences between Dunners and Welly). The dual name makes it easiest for all of these groups to find for little to no downside.

Contrary to what some may think, I'm only ever trying to act in good faith with these discussions and make what I believe are genuine improvements to Wikipedia. It's certainly not just dual names for the sake of them, or dual names and dual names only. Turnagra (talk) 06:37, 22 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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Thanks for the PROD. As you have seen, the article is now at AfD. What you won't have seen is this: Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/AnonymousReality. With paid editing, there's always socking involved. The trick is to find them. It was a fruitful hunt! Schwede66 23:30, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks so much! I figured there was surely a process for that sort of article—that sort of editing—though I was mainly concerned with how easy it might be to confirm sponsored sources… I wasn't thinking very much about chasing the editor at that point. — HTGS (talk) 23:48, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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Thanks for closing that RFC on Talk:Ruble and apologies if I contributed to the discussion getting off-topic and way out of hand. I hope there can be more productive discussions in future. -- Grnrchst (talk) 11:19, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

No worries at all. I appreciate a bit of discussion over the philosophy behind what we do and why we do it, so I don’t love to shut that down too quickly, but as an RfC it was just untenable. It should have been either an RM or an informal discussion to begin with, and I suspect it would only have gone even further off the rails with time. — HTGS (talk) 20:54, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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