Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Television

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WikiProject Television

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This page is within the scope of WikiProject Television, a collaborative effort to develop and improve Wikipedia articles about television programs. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page where you can join the discussion.TelevisionWikipedia:WikiProject TelevisionTemplate:WikiProject Televisiontelevision articles Project This page does not require a rating on the project's quality scale.

To-do list for Wikipedia:WikiProject Television: edit · history · watch · refresh · Updated 2021-05-04 To do list: Contributes to the assessment drive by assessing articles in the unassessed category. Ensure that requests for article assessment are met promptly. Ensure that articles tagged for needing our expert attention are dealt with quickly. Participate in deletion discussions for television-related articles. Tag articles related to television with the {{WikiProject Television}} template Add Info-boxes to TV-show articles that don't yet have them Tag articles with requests for improvement Create requested articles Work on articles needing improvement Note or direct people to biography conventions for articles on actors, crew. Similar for characters and episodes etc. Ensure that shows are discussed in the present tense (see WP:TISWAS) Create high priority episode articles. Create high priority season articles. Create high priority fictional characters. Major discussions/events: Incubators:

WikiProject Television was featured in a WikiProject Report in the Signpost on 8 January 2014.

WikiProject Television was featured in a WikiProject Report in the Signpost on 6 September 2016.

WikiProject Television

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While WP:NTV is still being worked out, and given the ever-increasing discussions as more and more episode articles are created, I have some suggestions for criteria. I don't intend this as an RfC, but to see if the ideas have general support before an RfC on adding them to the guidelines.

1. Principle: an episode should demonstrate notability on its own; that is, the article would pass GNG regardless of the series. Therefore, it should include:
   1. Reliable sources* documenting its production, with more than a passing mention, and
   2. Reliable sources* documenting its reception, with more than a passing mention
   3. If an episode meets GNG, but not all of the NTV criteria, it may still get an article if...
2. An episode article should normally have both production and reception sections to be considered notable, in line with MOS:TVPRODUCTION and MOS:TVRECEPTION, unless it was unreleased (see 4 & 5)
3. If the episode belongs to a commissioned series, the show will normally have an article for any of its episodes to be considered notable. The episode is not considered notable enough for its own article if:
   1. It will only duplicate information that is sufficiently DUE at the series article or a relevant season article or a relevant episode list; or
   2. There is no season article or episode list covering the relevant span due to lack of coverage. Extremely notable individual episodes may be exceptions
4. If the episode does not belong to a commissioned series, i.e. an orphaned pilot or unproduced pilot, it should demonstrate sufficient production coverage and lasting impact in reliable sources*
5. If the episode belongs to a commissioned series but was unaired, or not completed, it should demonstrate sufficient notability for unproduced works as if it did not belong to any series. This includes production coverage and lasting impact in reliable sources*
6. An episode that may not meet all of the individual criteria can be deemed notable if it is part of a season of television that is extensively studied and of significant historic notability; that is, the season is the subject of lasting academic criticism and extensive lasting popular culture coverage of sufficient depth. In these cases, a majority of the season's episodes must also meet independent notability criteria (see discussion)
7. Plot, release and cast list are considered trivial and non-notable coverage, as they are all evident and able to be confirmed through an episode's mere existence; however, they should be included in episode articles that are otherwise notable
8. Being nominated for or winning awards, even Emmys and BAFTAs, does not automatically denote episode notability; these can be covered at a season or series article (see discussion)
9. Some variation upon saying episodes released as part of a streaming block, with the exception of anthology series, (probably) may not get enough coverage to be independently notable

*Reliable sources refers to those relevant to the TV WikiProject, and independent to the production of the episode. These do not have to be in English.

Kingsif (talk) 20:42, 5 January 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I don't have a problem with this. On the specific topic of TV pilots, I really think we need to clamp down on this area especially, and we should be clear that "significant coverage" actually means more than short-term coverage (and/or sourcing demonstrating a "lasting impact"), so we avoid outcomes like Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Best of Times (TV pilot) where the "keep" outcome at AfD was truly a travesty. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 20:56, 5 January 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Changed "popular impact" to "lasting impact" above Kingsif (talk) 21:05, 5 January 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Also, you want to avoid words like "must". A guideline will instead generally say something like, "Notable television series and series episodes will generally receive significant coverage on both their production aspects and their critical response and/or cultural impact." I'm not saying the wording will be exactly this – but it shouldn't use words like "must", as there will always be exceptions. That's actually why I have a problem with the current first sentence of WP:TVSHOW – saying "Generally, an individual radio or television program is likely to be notable if it airs on a network of radio or television stations (either national or regional in scope), or on a cable television channel with a broad regional or national audience." just isn't clear enough that there are definitely exceptions to this, and "airing nationally" on its own isn't enough. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 21:07, 5 January 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Oh yeah, I'm hoping this will be prose-ified before becoming a guideline, as well. Kingsif (talk) 21:09, 5 January 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The wording An episode article should normally have both production and reception sections to be considered notable" reads as more to do with article quality than notability. Notability on those points are things like an overly long production period e.g. took three times as long to shoot as a normal episode, had 12 directors, was scheduled for series 3 but didn't surface until series 5 etc, and reception is, it was universally praised/trashed. I don't think notability should be dictated by having a section, that would invite padding. - X201 (talk) 13:04, 6 January 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@X201: There's a discussion below about what qualifies as suitable production/reception sections. Perhaps if the wording explains that it should have such sections that meet the TV MOS? Kingsif (talk) 13:15, 6 January 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Kingsif: Thanks for all these suggestions. I just want to point out (at least in my view), the text currently being drafted at WP:NTV in regards to television pilots/unaired pilots, and television episodes is more or less "accepted" for what it is, and probably should be used as a basis to expand upon with anything else discussed here. I'm not saying what's at Wikipedia:Notability (television)#Television pilots, future series or seasons, and unreleased series and Wikipedia:Notability (television)#Television episodes are the be all end all, just that there's a good foundation there and that text shouldn't be disregarded when considering any further changes. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:37, 6 January 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Oh also, anything that is seemingly agreed upon can just be added right to the proposed NTV because it's just in a drafting stage. Based on how it was described to me, once this project/concerned editors agree on something as drafted, then we should have RfCs to get wider input. We aren't there yet, so as I said, we can just make changes right to the proposal. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:39, 6 January 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Is there currently anything agreed upon that could be implemented on the working draft Wikipedia:Notability (television)? — YoungForever^(talk) 00:15, 27 January 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Season crit[edit]

There needs to be some version of criteria 5 from WP:BOOKCRIT: The book's author is so historically significant that any of the author's written works may be considered notable. This does not simply mean that the book's author is notable by Wikipedia's standards; rather, the book's author is of exceptional significance and the author's life and body of written work would be a common subject of academic study. Some TV shows or franchises are so notable that their entire history is studied. On the other hand, we don't want this to be a license to having every episode of a long-running, studied-in-academic-circles soap opera have individual articles "because WP:TVEPISODECRIT." To prevent "runaway article creation" I would recommend that the criteria be limited to episodes that are part of a season or series in which over half of the members already qualify for and already have articles (not redirects). davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 🎄 21:10, 5 January 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Interesting suggestion, so the TV season is so historically significant that any of its episode can be considered notable? How about a variation on (added as #6):

1. An episode that may not meet all of the individual criteria can be deemed notable if it is part of a season of television that is extensively studied and of significant historic notability; that is, the season is the subject of lasting academic criticism and extensive lasting popular culture coverage of sufficient depth. In these cases, a majority of the season's episodes must also meet independent notability criteria.

I really agree on that last point; I know a season that would theoretically qualify but I don't think any of its episodes are really notable enough and wouldn't like to see the exception be used to have them created and kept. Kingsif (talk) 21:31, 5 January 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Well, let's break down the process: in terms of articles, it's TV series -> LoE -> season -> episode(s) in order (sometimes the LoE step is skipped). Why do I bring this up? Because some TV series will not qualify for separate "season" articles, and just because a "season" article exists/is justified doesn't mean that individual TV episode articles are justified. So I would be leery of the idea that having a well-studied TV "season" necessarily implies that individual episodes will qualify for standalone articles. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 21:38, 5 January 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

If most of the episodes are notable, and the season is notable, does that make all of the other episodes to some level notable as default? When David mentioned it, I looked from the reader's perspective; that if a season seems so significant, and I find an article for most of its episodes, I want to read about the rest of them and would find it strange that some seemed randomly excluded. On the other hand, if a series is that well-studied and most of its episodes notable, then episodes that can't procure enough independent notability may very well be not significant at all or it would have at least some coverage. Kingsif (talk) 21:45, 5 January 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Let the coverage dictate it. First, this hypothetical episode will still be covered – in the season article. But I would have a problem with creating an article for an episode like The Burning (Seinfeld) just because "all the other episodes in that season have articles", because "The Burning" doesn't have the requisite production or even "review" level coverage... So, I think I have a problem with the idea that a "well-studied" season in which most of the episodes have standalone articles should "require" the other episodes to get articles even when the coverage doesn't justify it. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 21:51, 5 January 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I would avoid this. Take, for example, most of the streaming services original programming which release new seasons of a show in one block. Because of that model, the season is clearly notable (eg Stranger Things (season 3)) but none of the individual episodes would be. --Masem (t) 21:49, 5 January 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Oh no, you've reminded me of streaming blocks. Are episodes released all at once non-notable by default? I feel like that's the case and it would take some good sources to show otherwise. Kingsif (talk) 21:55, 5 January 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Most of the time, yes, since all the media before and after release focus on the season. You may get individual episode reviews but rarely a single episode in a bloc gets the development or production-type details that a normal broadcast episode may get (comparing how Stranger Things was reported on to how Watchmen or Westworld had been handled). So I'd definitely make sure to account for this. I agree that in a normal case, if 50%+ of a season's episodes are notable, the rest likely are, so given that rarely a streaming bloc episode is notable, this may not be an issue. --Masem (t) 22:05, 5 January 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

It probably doesn't need to be noted, then. Unless we want a whole section on streaming at the eventual guideline. Kingsif (talk) 22:09, 5 January 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

In regards to this and #9 above, I think the tone of the statement should be lessened, or that number removed all together. We just need to state something like "episodes released in a block may not get the individual coverage to warrant individual articles" because it is still possible for a singular episode in a block (perhaps the first or last) to get significant coverage. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:48, 6 January 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Black Mirror (series 3 to 5) is an exception but anthologies are more likely to receive individual episode attention. — Bilorv (talk) 22:42, 5 January 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Just to clarify My original suggestion was NOT to say "you can create a [non-list-article] page about a season" (or "series" for things like the new Doctor Who) but rather "if the series/season qualified under general notability guidelines, whether it had an article or not, and where half or more of the episodes in the series/season already qualify for an article outside of this special "it's part of a notable season/season" exemption, then in order to "complete the set" all other episodes in that season will be "given a pass" on notability, much as otherwise-non-notable works by famous authors do not have to show they are notable in and of themselves." In other words, as with the books by famous authors, and for that matter songs and albums by famous musicians, sometimes "notability IS inherited" WP:NOTINHERITED notwithstanding. As for shows without distinct "seasons" things like "identifiable story arcs or other definable large contiguous sequences of episodes" or "the whole run of the show" can be used to substitute for "season/series." davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 🎄 22:01, 5 January 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I think we understood what you meant, but are not sure if we actually want to "complete the set" or not: from a reader perspective, we surely would, but episodes of a single season (or series) are much more closely connected than books by the same author (some of which may be much older and/or more obscure), so we can reasonably expect that if most of the episodes meet GNG, all of them will, and those that don't are exceptionally not-notable. Kingsif (talk) 22:13, 5 January 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• Oppose any Deletionists Delight language, as per the ridiculous deletion of the one Seinfeld episode. WP:IAR should certainly apply here, please put the IAR 'Completeness' language back in the criteria, thanks. Randy Kryn (talk) 15:05, 28 December 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Awards[edit]

For those already part of the discussion @IJBall, Masem, and Davidwr:, I've now added #8, about awards. I think this seems an obvious point of notability, but that it might be controversial. Kingsif (talk) 22:09, 5 January 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I agree with this. But also on the flip side, depending on the type of award nomination, by getting such it in theory could be believed that there's enough coverage out there to make an article. But an article shouldn't be created solely because of such nominations. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:48, 6 January 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Missing ideas[edit]

So these ideas are just supposed to be standalone distinct ideas we could either get consensus for or against? Mentioned in discussion above (and with precedents at WP:NFO and WP:NBOOK) would be variations upon "X reviews", such as: (a) at least two reviews in reliable (inter-)national sources; (b) at least two reviews in reliable (inter-)national sources excluding those known for an extremely large number of reviews (IGN, A.V. Club have been given as examples); (c) at least five reviews in reliable (inter-)national sources. I would also add a possibility "winning an award can count towards this threshold" or just an option "winning a major award" that automatically qualifies as notability (in direct contradiction to criterion #8). Also maybe I'm missing it but I'd like a way for supporters of the following claim to have the potential for it to become consensus: "if a season/program has received extremely detailed coverage and the majority of episodes in the season/program are notable then the episode is considered notable" (targeted at people who think it would be an undesirable outcome to have 21 articles and 3 redirects for a season of a show). — Bilorv (talk) 22:42, 5 January 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

To the first point, I didn't want to detail what a decent reception section would be. I think we all agree a reception section is needed, but what constitutes a notable reception section is debated. Perhaps a fixed number of reception articles (not necessarily reviews), with an award (that has a Wikipedia article for it/awarding body) counting towards that number, is the way to go. Should that be hashed out before RfC?

And please continue discussing the merits of the extremely detailed coverage part, more than three views on the matter would be great.

Kingsif (talk) 23:01, 5 January 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I can tell you what doesn't constitute a "proper" 'Response' section – one that only cites Rotten Tomatoes and Metacritic! I would actually like to see it written in the guideline that a "proper" 'Response' section must (and here I would use "must"!) have more than just Rotten Tomatoes and Metacritic, and must include proper individual reviews, and that sections consisting of just Rotten Tomatoes and Metacritic can be removed from the article. I come across this fairly often. Right now, MOS:TV doesn't specifically speak to this, but it should. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 23:42, 5 January 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hmm, what constitutes a "proper" production section should probably also be worked out, but these are more likely needed at MOS:TV, which you mention. And then linked from the notability criteria. I.e. NTV should say we expect "proper" production and reception sections, and see the MOS for what that means. Kingsif (talk) 23:45, 5 January 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

This is a much higher bar for notability than is currently being used in AfD discussions. How are you planning on establishing a wider consensus for that meaningful change, outside of a few people talking and drafting on this page? — Toughpigs (talk) 00:03, 6 January 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

That's good. AfDs are being closed as keep with reasons like "they said they're looking for sources and it exists so that's good enough for now", but it isn't good enough; there's a lower bar for notability of films than books and even then that's higher than the current acceptable level of TV episodes. There has to be a good reason to not just give the episode routine coverage at a season/show article to justify an individual article - because the more individual articles exist the more it prompts people to create them for every episode ever - but editors who have caught the creation bug want to give that routine coverage in a stubby episode article. The TV project can decide on TV notability criteria, then start an RfC for guideline inclusion (as I mentioned in the first sentence). But even if this discussion is just something referenced in AfDs as the intention of editors who are focusing on TV articles, it's something of a win. Kingsif (talk) 12:55, 6 January 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I'll repeat what I said in the previous discussion: RT/Metacritic are only worth citing when they list more than 20 reviews, otherwise there's too much random fluctuation, and if it has 20 reviews then enough of the 20 should be high-quality enough to justify a standalone article. If you see a "Reception" that just cites RT and/or Metacritic then replace them with the set of reviews cited that are reliable/good for Wikipedia's purpose. If there are then not enough for notability then it's time for WP:BEFORE and if that fails then AfD or redirect (and for consistency it's best to look at all episode articles for that show/season as well if you can). — Bilorv (talk) 12:22, 6 January 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

My problem with using RT/Metacritic as a metric is that lots of non-American shows are not included, or get much less coverage. I think saying that only RT/Metacritic is not a suitable reception section is fine, but we shouldn't say an episode needs X amount on either, because some will never reach that no matter their notability. Kingsif (talk) 12:55, 6 January 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Perhaps you've misunderstood. I don't support any requirement that RT or Metacritic pages even exist for an episode to be notable. My comment above is intended to imply that RT/Metacritic are unrelated to notability—it is only the reviews that they list that could be useful in assessing this. — Bilorv (talk) 13:47, 6 January 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Bilorv: Good idea. Should that be at the MOS? (MOS:TVRECEPTION) Kingsif (talk) 14:16, 6 January 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Be explicit that if WP:GNG or any other applicable notability criteria is met, it is considered notable even if it fails this criteria due to things like missing production information or missing audience information from its initial airing. This can easily happen if old, previously obscure/forgotten episodes are "re-discovered" and heavily commented on by journalists. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 15:33, 6 January 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Started a line at 1.3 to this effect Kingsif (talk) 16:07, 6 January 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Be explicit that Wikipedia is not obligated to have an article about a TV episode that meets this or any other notability criteria IF there is an existing consensus against it or if the standard practice for that particular TV show is to not have stand-alone episode articles (see also: WP:SPLIT).

Is that really a notability issue? Or just a "don't make an article that we've agreed not to make" issue? Kingsif (talk) 16:07, 6 January 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

It's the latter but I've seen enough arguments over things like this over the years that it's worth putting in any special notability guideline, even if it's just in an appendix-type section that doesn't carry the "weight" of a policy or guideline near the bottom. The controlling guidelines/policies are probably those that address WP:CONSENSUS and other behavioral guidelines, along with a dash of WP:BOLD and WP:BRD for cases where there is no firm consensus against per-episode articles but some indication of a standard practice of not having them for this series/season despite notable examples being available. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 17:50, 6 January 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Implementation[edit]

@Kingsif: Do you want to synthesis what was discussed here an add it into the working draft of the guideline? - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:41, 30 January 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I could try. Kingsif (talk) 00:10, 31 January 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Time to archive?[edit]

This discussion, along with #Articles for every episode, has been dormant for almost two years, and any future discussion can occur at Wikipedia talk:Notability (television). Is it time to unpin these sections and allow them to be archived? RunningTiger123 (talk) 21:56, 13 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Yes, please do. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 22:56, 4 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

 Done. This should be going away soon. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 03:17, 5 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The article Looney Tunes Platinum Collection has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Article reads like an advertisement or press release, and has only one source for its 10.03-year history.

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion.

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:The Reluctant Traveler (TV series)#Requested move 23 February 2023 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Fuzheado | Talk 03:21, 1 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:History of LGBT characters in animation#Page name change/purpose?, which is within the scope of this WikiProject. Thanks! Historyday01 (talk) 22:04, 2 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Nine Regional#Requested move 2 March 2023 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. From Bassie f (his talk page) 08:07, 3 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I need some pairs of eyes on So Help Me Todd. Various IP addresses (before it was semi-page protected until March 14) and a name editor have been disruptive editing by repeatedly changing "website=The Futon Critic" to "work=TheFutonCritic.com" every few days. Based on WP:TV and MOS:TV past discussions, the website name is The Futon Critic, not the domain name as work. — YoungForever^(talk) 14:21, 3 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Added to my watch list. You are correct: if there's a clear website name/title, that should be used for the |work= parameter. —Joeyconnick (talk) 02:42, 5 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Unfortunately, the disruptive editing of IP address(es) resume right after the semi-page protection came off on March 14. They are also being WP:SNEAKY. — YoungForever^(talk) 14:28, 16 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

 You are invited to join the discussion at Template talk:Infobox television#Distributor parameter: is it needed? ButlerBlog (talk) 21:36, 3 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I can't seem to remember, did this WP come to a consensus concerning episode articles where the only content was a plot and reception? I feel as if the agreement was that articles such as these were not notable, but I wanted to make sure first; my concern for this relates to the episode articles for South Park, which only uses these two sections for notability. -- Alex_21 _TALK 23:05, 3 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I am pretty sure there was a general consensus that only plot and reception are not enough to warrant an episode article as it fails WP:GNG. I remembered the discussion on WikiProject Television. — YoungForever^(talk) 23:29, 3 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I do recall a convo like that but that was years ago. I agree it is valid to consider such articles not sufficient for notability, if we're talking the typical 3-4 sources + Neilsen numbers. If it a controversial episode of South Park such that the reception covers the controversy in depth, typically now looking at 5-6 sources+, that's different.

Be aware that I expect arguments that will complain the three-to-four sources makes it pass the GNG, but a Wikiproject is in its rights to narrow that down to improve coverage. Masem (t) 23:37, 3 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The issue is that there is pretty strong consensus within WP:TV that this is true – that TV articles should also have a robust 'Production' section in order to qualify for standalone articles – but as Masem points out above, the harder line "inclusionists" outside WP:TV feel that such a standard is "too strict" because they interpret WP:GNG in pretty much the loosest way possible – that something like two or so "independent sources" (e.g. reviews, even from something incredibly marginal like Common Sense Media) qualify pretty much anything for an article.

So, basically, you can try taking an article like this to WP:AfD, but there is very likely to be pushback from the inclusionists who will claim this is "OK" to qualify for an article. Of course, you can always try converting to a redirect first, but it's pretty likely to be reverted for something like South Park. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 00:57, 4 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

There will definitely be pushback if too many articles like this get nominated for AfD; I recall TenPoundHammer's AfDs and redirects for TV episode articles were a major talking point in the buildup to WP:ARBXFD. RunningTiger123 (talk) 03:19, 4 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Literally every time I tried to tackle such an episode, it would get undone (sometimes not even a full second) later by someone arguing "all TV episodes are notable". Usually they'd claim "there are sources, trust me on this" and never get around to it, or claim that because one boilerplate review existed, that was enough to make it notable on its own. My understanding is that episodes aren't supposed to be notable unless there's detailed info about the episode beyond just a single review from a review-mill that churns out reviews for everything that ever existed. But every time I tried to refute that, the people undoing my redirects just went "la la la, I can't hear you". Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 04:15, 4 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Technically if sources exist then the article should be allowed to remain, whether or not they're incorporated into the article. However, I rather agree with you...editors shouldn't just claim that sources exist while proving unwilling or unable to provide such sources, or otherwise lifting a finger to address such concerns. I've had a similar experience when I've tried to deal with barebones Star Trek episode articles, with editors apparently forgetting that notability is not inherited. DonIago (talk) 04:20, 4 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Literally every single time I've pressed anyone for sources ever, they just tell me "oh trust me, they're out there". I can't find a way to break people out of this trend of passing the buck. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 04:40, 4 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Yes, WP:NEXIST mostly operates as a canard. I mean, yeah – I've seen one or two instances where someone invoked that, and then actually followed through to produce some sources. But most of the time I see it invoked, it is in a "The check is in the mail!!1!" context or gambit. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 04:55, 4 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I agree with the above. I noticed the pushback comes more from either TV series with a big fan following (like South Park, but Simpsons isn't much better) or shows that are the flavor of the week. Gonnym (talk) 10:29, 4 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

WP:NTVEP exists now, which became the consensus for the project after a long discussion (the first of which I think is still pinned at the top of the talk here). That can definitely be used in support for any AfDs if that's the route it goes, but as with the editors who look to the loosest terms of GNG, they could also state "Well WP:NTV is just an essay, not a guideline or WP:SNG". It's the same principle as WP:NSONG however: not every song on an album is notable, and likely not every television episode is notable. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 17:07, 4 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Just a note, while the project consensus may be in support of NTVEP, the proposed guidelines were found to have no consensus when put up for RFC. So there may be more pushback if someone tries to use that as support. RunningTiger123 (talk) 18:56, 4 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Yep – the "only thing that matters is WP:GNG!!1!" hardliners who tediously invoke WP:CREEP at any suggested developments/improvements (good or bad), succeeded in keeping that at "Essay" level, so they can say "It's just an "essay"!!1!" in AfD discussions (despite the fact that some of our most important operating principles, like WP:BRD and WP:Readers first, are only at the "essay" level, so it's not like "essays" can't have important standing!). --IJBall (contribs • talk) 19:14, 4 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Issue isn't just notability, also the splitting from the season, list of episodes, series, etc articles, where the episode articles mostly duplicate those with little added content. Majority of episode articles don't seem ideal for inclusion in WP, their information could be better consolidated in their parent articles. Thanks, Indagate (talk) 10:03, 4 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Just because something passes WP:GNG does not mean it should exist as a standalone article, something can meet the bare minimum requirements and still be better suited merged into a more appropriate location such as a series or season article. That is why experienced editors put together the suggestions in WP:NTVEP to help guide these discussions. - adamstom97 (talk) 22:31, 4 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Yes, but inclusionists like to pretend that WP:NOPAGE doesn't say that. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 22:38, 4 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Unfortunately, it is true, inclusionists ignore WP:NTVEP. — YoungForever^(talk) 00:04, 5 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I've tagged the three episodes of the most recent season of South Park season 26 with {{notability}}; we'll see how long they last. -- Alex_21 _TALK 00:38, 5 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I've found {{notability}} tags dating back to 2010 that no one has bothered to address either way. And of course, literally half a second after I boldly redirect, someone snipes me. Every. Fucking. Time. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 04:35, 5 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

What's an example of an episode with a notability tag that's that old? –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 04:48, 5 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Literally every single one I redirected for non-notability before a certain group of editors went on a rampage to undo my redirects... Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 05:27, 5 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I was quite right; as soon as I decided to add the tags, Nightscream removed them just as quickly twice. -- Alex_21 _TALK 07:35, 6 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Yes, and I provided my rationale as to why. I will repeat those here, with an additional one that I neglected to include in my edit summary:

You claimed in your edit summary when you added that tag "This is not the only requirement for notability; read WP:NTVEP in further detail..."

First of all, WP:NTVEP isn't a policy. Nor is it a guideline. It's an essay.

Second, let's pretend, for the sake of argument, that it's not an essay, and that the criteria it gives are binding in the same way that those given by an actual policy or guideline are. WP:NTVEP,states "Multiple reviews or other reliable, independent, non-trivial commentary demonstrate notability for a television episode." The articles in question includes mutliple reviews. No other required criterion is mentioned by that essay. Do you dispute this?

You complain that the articles have "only plot and reception". Let's put aside the production info and other material in the article, such as that found in the Infobox, External links, categories, etc. What other criteria, in your view, does Wikipedia require, and can you cite an actual policy or guideline that gives them?

Wikipedia and its articles are in a constant state of revision, and there is no deadline. I've seen articles with the barest bit of secondary sources, or even those lacking in them, and the consensus view, much to my dismay, was to keep them, on the basis of the rationale that so long as such sources exist, it was reasonable to keep the article, even if those sources were not cited in the article at the time, which I think is absurd. This demonstrates that the community regards the bar for notability as being a bit lower than I do. In light of this, these episode articles clearly exceed that bar, as they have secondary source citations, and a fair level of detail on their production. There is now way that the notion that they are somehow not notable reflects the practices of the editing community to date.

And btw, I didn't realize there was an ongoing discussion. There was no link in the tag/banner, nor any discussion on the articles' talk page, so I took this to mean that whoever added the tag did so and then ran off without discussion, as too many editors do when they add such tags. Had I know that there was an ongoing discussion on the matter, even despite the anemic rationale offered for the tags, I would not have reverted. In the future, it might been a good idea to alert editors who frequently work on South Park articles about that discussion. If the tag/banner does not support a link, a notice could be added to the talk page, and the most frequent editors to those articles can be pinged. I apologize if my reverts were viewed as an indication that I was ignoring discussion; I simply wasn't aware that one was ongoing. Nightscream (talk) 15:30, 6 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

You ignored the next sentence of WP:NTVEP which states "It is preferred to have reliable sources discussing production aspects of the episode in question, such as its development and writing; the casting of specific actors; design elements; filming or animation; post-production work; or music, rather than simply recounting the plot." Do any of these articles have any 'Production' info contained in the articles? Are they likely to?! – If not, WP:NOPAGE can be invoked, and the argument that these topics are not best-served with standalone episodes, but instead at the "season"-level article, can legitimately be made. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 16:31, 6 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I just want to back it up and ask why "this TV show has one three-sentence review on AV Club, therefore it's automatically notable" is the argument I'm seeing thrown around so much. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 18:24, 7 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

IMO, AV Club reviews should never be used to "get you over the hump" anyway. They don't qualify as a "nationally known critic" (as per WP:NFILM). If an article's only reviews are, say, AV Club and Common Sense Media, that article flat-out does not pass WP:GNG under any reasonable standard. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 18:56, 7 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Sure, plus The Future of the Force and Bubbleblabber used in Japanese Toilet (South Park) where this discussion started seem worse as sources. Thanks, Indagate (talk) 19:01, 7 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

If an article's only reviews are, say, AV Club and Common Sense Media, that article flat-out does not pass WP:GNG under any reasonable standard. Tell that to all the editors who mass-undid all my redirects of articles whose sole sources were AV Club and Common Sense Media. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 18:06, 8 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Relevent to this disscussion, I just noticed a lot of "new" episode articles, which were just @Donaldd23 (restoring previously redirected articles) while at the same time also removing {{Notability}} tags without actually addressing that issue. Gonnym (talk) 08:52, 21 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I'm looking for any RfC discussing episode lists. I've been having trouble tracking any down and was wondering if anyone here is aware of any. I'm planning on opening another RfC discussing whether podcast episode lists need to pass NLIST or are acceptable to split from the podcast regardless. I would like to find a RfC for television episode lists so that I have something to model the RfC on. TipsyElephant (talk) 12:30, 4 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The thing is, if the only thing the episode list gives you is the title and date, those lists are really not helpful. Not that List of The Tonight Show with Jay Leno episodes (2000–2009) is any better. Gonnym (talk) 19:27, 4 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Again, talk shows and game shows and the like, and pretty much anything else that is "unscripted" and without "episode storylines" (and this would include most podcasts), should not have "episode lists" on Wikipedia. Only scripted series, or "reality TV" shows with "continuing storylines", should have episodes lists and summaries. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 20:27, 4 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Warner Bros. Discovery New Zealand#Requested move 20 February 2023 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. From Bassie f (his talk page) 21:12, 4 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

 You are invited to join the discussion at Template talk:Infobox television#Deleting some Chronology parameters. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 00:38, 5 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Please consider joining the feedback request service. An editor has requested comments from other editors for this discussion. This page has been added to the following list: WikiProjects and collaborations When discussion has ended, remove this tag and it will be removed from the list. If this page is on additional lists, they will be noted below.

Hello, everyone, I am proposing that we expand the scope of WikiProject Television to create several task forces for streaming services like that of Netflix, Amazon, Apple Plus, HBO, and Hulu. These are the ones off the top of my head that I think that is useful since there are hundreds or nearly thousands of articles related to these services about the programming alone. Netflix should be a given considering we have several Netflix navboxes for the exact purpose of linking shows among other articles which have gotten extreme large just to link them all together. And the fact of scope for Netflix is probably the largest of the services put together.

We should be in contact with the Film project since these companies also produce films, not just TV shows. But we have more articles for television shows than films. And the task forces should have the parameters with the project banners and have the ability to list the importance of the articles from top to low for these services. As of right now, there are only five task forces for networks, BBC, Cartoon Network, ITC Productions, and Nickelodeon. Although, both ITC and Nick are tagged as inactive. Disney doesn't need one since there is already a Disney WikiProject that covers the streaming-related articles for them.

Regarding naming, it should be simple such as the following:

• Wikipedia:WikiProject Television/Netflix task force
• Wikipedia:WikiProject Television/Amazon task force
• Wikipedia:WikiProject Television/Apple Plus task force
• Wikipedia:WikiProject Television/HBO task force
• Wikipedia:WikiProject Television/Hulu task force

Look to seeing everyone's thoughts and ideas on this. WikiCleanerMan (talk) 23:41, 5 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• I'm personally opposed to this. As can be seen by the graveyard of dozens of TV related taskforces, these usually don't go anywhere. What would you gain from creating 5 new task forces, that you are missing now without them? Gonnym (talk) 23:45, 5 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  Because the scope of articles for these services is only going to get larger. Probably by the end of this year, we will end up with hundreds of more articles. I think for project organization, it can be better served than just having the TV project banner under just two cats. For general articles about Netflix under its main category, there is enough that would concern a task force. And most of the task forces are inactive due to their limited focus on one area. Like G.I. Joe, The 4400, and 24, for specific shows or franchises, these have or do end eventually. The services are only growing and more will be written for it, a task force I think help with making this easier. Like my mention of the Netflix navboxes which have gotten massively huge over the years. This would concern a task force let alone the main project like this one. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 00:22, 6 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• These are probably too much task forces for a relatively way too specific scope. How about just a streaming task force? Aaron Liu (talk) 01:08, 6 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  Agreed – just one streaming TV task force makes more sense than five, esp. since some of those five will be small. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 02:09, 6 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  Yeah, I'm on the fence right now about whether or not the taskforce is even needed, but if it is to exist, I feel like it should be one single task force, rather than five. ~Cheers, TenTonParasol 02:12, 6 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• Sorry... not clear why we need to make a distinction between "TV" and "streaming TV". This is already (thank god) a distinction that is going away as we move away from labelling things "web television series". Sure, in the early 2010s, maybe such a distinction was useful but as every year goes by, we see that TV is TV is TV, no matter how it is delivered/reaches us. About the only major distinction at this point is that TV series delivered via streaming can be released all at once in way that they cannot be via broadcast (although even here we have series released 2 or 3 episodes at a time, sometimes over the course of days or a very small number of weeks)... but such TV is still following all the conventions of TV as it has been in the 1960s, 1970s, 1980s, etc. etc. etc.

So... my opinion is that we don't need a separate "streaming" TV taskforce. Whether a show debuts on a traditional broadcast/cable channel or via a streaming service, it's still a TV show. —Joeyconnick (talk) 06:38, 6 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• I don't feel the need for these task forces, but if so, it should definitely be a singular one, not many. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 16:03, 6 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
• Hmm. Like some of the other commenters on here, I'd support a singular streaming TV task force, as streaming is here to stay, regardless of whether it is on the "decline" or not, considering the fierce streaming war(s) going on right now. Besides, I see the issue with task forces like "HBO task force" is that HBO Max may go by the wayside this year, if it is merged with Discovery+ as rumors have suggested, and I'm not sure of how long Hulu will be around, as I'm betting that Disney would love to role that into Disney+. I think having one task force would be better because it is inevitable that some streaming services will merge in the next couple years. Historyday01 (talk) 17:02, 6 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
• I also don't feel additional task forces are necessary for this topic. InfiniteNexus (talk) 17:03, 6 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
• Oppose because I do not think we need several different task forces for this. They would most likely end up inactive just like a lot of TV related task forces. — YoungForever^(talk) 18:18, 6 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
• Comment I could go for a single streaming task force. But we should bear in mind that streaming covers both film and television. So this would become a task force of two projects. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 18:41, 6 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  Right, I think a collaborative task force, with Wikiproject film, would be great, and I have to disagree with the pessimism of those such as YoungForever. Historyday01 (talk) 19:25, 6 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• In general. While asking for comments via RfC is a good idea, many commentators might not be associated with the WikiProject and would not be involved either after the comment. It is advisable to discuss among the members of WikiProject and see if it makes sense to create task force(s). There wouldn't be any usefulness if the RfC is closed as consensus to create one or more of the proposals and there're no editors working in them ending up as just vanity projects and junk in talk page banners. Thus, ask the members and discuss if something makes sense and if there's interest. Or be bold and create if the initiator is expected to be an active member for a reasonable period — DaxServer (t · m · c) 19:32, 6 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

There's 502 users listed as participants of the TV project under the respective category. There's no way pinging that many people would help. And it's hard to know unlike on some other project spaces if there are active or not. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 22:16, 6 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

No, I don't mean pinging all of them but just another regular new section — DaxServer (t · m · c) 22:25, 6 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Oh, okay. Yeah I just wasn't sure to do it as another section without the Rfc. But I think there is enough support for just a single streaming task force. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 19:19, 11 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I wouldn't categorize these comments as support for any taskforce, rather it feels there is mostly opposition to any taskforce creation, single or otherwise. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 21:47, 15 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Could I get some input at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 February 20#Jade Armor (TV series)? It's a bit unclear when this television show premiered, maybe one of you people who are more familiar with these things can figure it out with more confidence than I have. —Compassionate727 ^(T·C) 09:58, 6 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

As I recall on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Television/Archive 35#Ratings graph proposal, the general consensus is to remove the ratings graphs if they do not show any significant viewership trends and/or cause accessibility issues. There is an editor who have been readding the ratings graphs to TV series regardless of the accessibility issues. Please see List of The Blacklist episodes#Ratings, List of NCIS episodes#Ratings, List of NCIS: Los Angeles episodes#Ratings. As you can see, the x-axis on the ratings graphs is unreadable and we can't be scrolling horizontally on tables and graphs per MOS guidelines. — YoungForever^(talk) 15:18, 8 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I honestly regret creating that template, and we can't even get it deleted. -- Alex_21 _TALK 20:01, 8 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Just a thought. If it can't be deleted, what about modifying it so that it conforms to the accessibility rules? - X201 (talk) 20:38, 8 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Based on Talk:List of Chicago Med episodes#Ratings table, Alex 21 said that he tried to fix the x-axis issue over the years, but yet to find a solution. — YoungForever^(talk) 20:52, 8 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I was thinking along the lines of limiting it to however many episodes looks OK and preventing it going higher. If that means some have to be split over two graphs, so be it, at least we'll have two readable and accessible graphs, rather than one huge one that is little use to anyone. - X201 (talk) 21:31, 8 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I had a quick dig with Petscan and found List of Top Gear (2002 TV series) episodes. All 239 episode numbers are clearly readable. - X201 (talk) 20:32, 8 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Yikes, that by far is way worse. — YoungForever^(talk) 20:43, 8 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

That is absolutely one of the worst case scenarios I've seen. See my view, and note the excessive whitespace, the crammed x-axis, and the extensive legend. I still have no idea how to space out the x-axis in {{Graph:Chart}} for bar graphs such as these. -- Alex_21 _TALK 06:32, 9 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Sorry, I was being sarcastic last night when I said they were clearly visible. My view is the same as yours. I've also found List of Will & Grace episodes, which is just as bad. - X201 (talk) 11:51, 9 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Currently, there is a proposed merger of Libraries and librarians in fiction and Librarians in popular culture to a new page entitled Libraries and librarians in culture. But, it has been inactive since July 2022, so it would be great to get some more eyes on it, so there can a clearer consensus before moving forward. Thanks! Historyday01 (talk) 18:06, 8 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Further discussion/opinions would be greatly appreciated regarding Template talk:Infobox award#Producer clarification. I have asked the same thing in the past on the talk page for that infobox template, but have similarly gotten no responses.

TL;DR, there is a parameter titled 'producer' which instructs to simply list the, "show's producer". It doesn't specify if this means those credited as 'producer' of it it instead means (or includes) executive producers or the production company. As broad as it currently is, it should be updated accordingly, whether that means updating the template instructions or adding new parameters for EPs/production companies. I don't know, but as I said, further discussions/opinions on this matter would be great. Thanks. Magitroopa (talk) 06:19, 9 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Magitroopa: Usually there is one or two to three people who are actually credited as "Producer" right? Those are who I imagine should be noted, much like the person(s) who is the director. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 19:48, 10 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Part of the problem here is that "producer"/"E.P." titles on movies means something different than it does with TV shows. On a movie, the "producer" definitely gets the award. But, on a TV show, it's probably the "showrunner", who often has the title of "Executive Producer". I don't know that there's an easy way to resolve this issue... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 20:08, 10 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

This template, and parameter in particular, is for awards ceremonies, yes? So if we were to use the Oscars, and build this infobox specifically for the upcoming 95th ones, the producers are Glenn Weiss and Ricky Kirshner and they both should be in the infobox. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 20:51, 10 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Favre1fan93: The problem with that example, is that the parameter for this template is simply listed as 'producer'. The title of this source says they are set as the producers for it, then within the article itself, says they will, "...serve as executive producers..."

Looking at the 2023 Kids' Choice Awards which have already occurred, Jesse Ignjatovic, Evan Prager, and Barb Bialkowski (all from Den of Thieves) are credited as 'executive producer', along with Luke Wahl, Paul J. Medford, and Ashley Kaplan credited as executive producers for Nickelodeon. Then additionally, there are Sara Miller and Lauren Mandel who are the two simply credited as 'producer'.

So in that instance, who should be listed as producer? I would imagine the two actually credited for that role, but then that conflicts with Weiss + Kirshner being listed in the Oscars infoboxes, as they are executive producers. This is exactly why I would suggest change(s?) to the template to avoid this kind of confusion going on in the future. Again, whether that be changing the 'producer' parameter to 'executive producer' or adding it in for both to be listed, I don't know. Magitroopa (talk) 05:52, 11 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

With the Oscars having aired tonight, here's an update on those credits: Ricky Kirshner, Glenn Weiss, and Molly McNearney are all credited as executive producers, while Sarah Levine Hall, Raj Kapoor, Erin Irwin, and Jennifer Sharron are the ones with the simple 'producers' crediting. With the parameter only giving out 'Produced by', something definitely needs to be updated with the infobox- I'm guessing it would be change it to list executive producers instead. Magitroopa (talk) 05:22, 13 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Kirshner and Weiss (and I guess McNearney) definitely need to be the ones credited in this instance. So if that means adjusting the current parameter, or also adding an Executive producer one, that's the solution. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 21:49, 15 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

In light of some recent drive-by editing by a certain user, I decided to propose some mergers of various pages about LGBTQ animated characters:

• Animated series with LGBT characters: 1990s into History of LGBT characters in animation: 1990s, discussion here

• Animated series with LGBT characters: 2000s into History of LGBT characters in animation: 2000s, discussion here

• Animated series with LGBT characters: 2010s into History of LGBT characters in animation: 2010s, discussion here

Also, if you haven't already, I'd encourage you to participate in this discussion about the proposed merger of Animated series with LGBT characters: 2020s and List of animated series with LGBT characters: 2020–present, which has been stale since Dec. 2022. Historyday01 (talk) 17:48, 11 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I think some input at this episode's discussion may be required GoodDay (talk) 20:20, 11 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

There is no active content dispute. GoodDay is merely blowing on the embers. --₪ MIESIANIACAL 01:23, 12 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

We'll let others decide that, for themselves. GoodDay (talk) 01:35, 12 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Odd you should say that, since you've decided for yourself there exists a dispute for others to get involved in and thus reignite it. --₪ MIESIANIACAL 01:43, 12 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I haven't described anything 'here' as a content dispute. Merely requesting more input into a discussion, at an episode page. GoodDay (talk) 01:46, 12 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

There's no use playing the literal game. The implication in a request for others' input is clear.

To save anyone else reading this their time, I, as the only other editor involved in an argument that is going on at that talkpage can tell you it's no longer about the current content of the article; I put in a compromise edit days ago and the other editor hasn't mentioned it since. The argument has been about what constitutes edit warring (despite that editor having already taken up many other editors' time arguing with them over at the EW talk page) and semantics. I am gradually easing myself out of it (if GoodDay doesn't become an obstacle to my exit, that is). --₪ MIESIANIACAL 02:04, 12 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

It's up to you members of the WikiProject. Give your input 'there', if you wish. GoodDay (talk) 02:13, 12 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The article Romani ite domum has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Handily fails WP:PLOT & WP:N (nominated at the request of User:Michael Bednarek)

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. — Fourthords | =Λ= | 14:04, 13 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Romani ite domum is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Romani ite domum until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article until the discussion has finished.

— Fourthords | =Λ= | 14:58, 13 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The March 8, 2023 episode of South Park, "Deep Learning", which depicts the characters using the AI-based app ChatGPT to write their romantic texts and school essays, credits ChatGPt in the closing credits. Some editors want this listed in the episode's Infobox, while others opposite it. Can editors please weigh in with their opinion at the RfC here?

The discussion that preceeded it, in which editors presented their arguments for and against the decision, is directly above it. Thank you. Nightscream (talk) 15:18, 13 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

My $0.02 is that I would not list that, say, under 'writers' in an infobox or episodes table. But I would certainly mention that in prose (presumably under 'Production'), esp. if secondary sources notice it. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 17:17, 13 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Formal request has been received to merge: NHL on Versus into NHL on NBC; dated: February 2023. Proposer's Rationale: Both networks were owned by the same company and there were many similarities in their coverage. They might as well be one and the same. ~100.7.44.80. Discussion input welcome.GenQuest ^"scribble" 14:32, 16 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Frak (expletive)#Requested move 12 March 2023 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. — Shibbolethink ^{(♔ ♕)} 13:54, 20 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Would an article like History of CBS be "high" importance for WP:TV? (I'd say "yes".) Thanks. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 17:07, 21 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I'd agree with "high". Looking at Wikipedia:WikiProject Television/Assessment#Importance scale, the subject is extremely notable, but is still notable only within one continent (i.e. America). -- Alex_21 _TALK 21:47, 21 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:SBS TV (South Korean TV channel)#Requested move 17 March 2023 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. From Bassie f (his talk page) 22:06, 21 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]