User talk:Montenois

Welcome!

Hello, Montenois, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on discussion pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place {{help me}} before the question. Again, welcome!--MollyPollyRolly (talk) 18:22, 28 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, I'm JPxG. I wanted to let you know that I reverted one of your recent contributions—specifically this edit to Franz von Roques—because it did not appear constructive. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. If you have any questions, you can ask for assistance at the Help desk. Thanks. jp×g 09:28, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

That's a little surprising, because my edit was factual and not based on my personal opinion. German nobility is divided into those who have titles and those who don't. Franz von Roques did not have a title, meaning that he should be categorized as "German untitled nobility", which is a subcategory of "German nobility". The text on the latter category's page states expressly: "Pages in this category should be moved to subcategories where applicable." When I moved Franz von Roques to his correct subcategory I was merely following this guideline. Montenois (talk) 13:12, 5 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I checked the Franz von Roques article and noticed that you had reverted your revert and restored my version, no doubt because you came to the same conclusion that I did. Thanks. Montenois (talk) 14:40, 5 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, Montenois,

I have reverted a number of your edits because you are emptying categories "out of process". If you want a category renamed, merged or deleted, you need to nominate it at Categories for Discussion, not remove all of its contents. It requires a discussion, not an individual editor's decision that an entire group of categories is no longer necessary. Please do not do this ever again. For information on Wikipedia's policies on categories, please review Wikipedia:Categorization.

If you have questions about editing on Wikipedia or its policies, please bring them to the Teahouse. Thank you. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 02:07, 5 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Obviously, you didn't know that my edits were updates reflecting the recent administrative reform in Latvia. On 1 July 2021, the number of first-level administrative divisions in Latvia was reduced rather dramatically, from 119 to 43 (36 municipalities and seven state cities), as evidenced here: [1]. Let's take an example: Amata Municipality ceased to exist on 1 July 2021, because it was merged into Cēsis Municipality. Obviously, this rendered a part of the information on the page of this municipality obsolete. Accordingly, I updated the information, characterizing Amata as a former municipality and recategorizing it from "Municipalities of Latvia" to the correct "Former subdivisions of Latvia". I also recategorized the persons in the category "People from Amata Municipality" as "People from Cēsis Municipality", reflecting the new state of things since 1 July 2021. You reverted these updates, with the result that the article now characterizes Amata Municipality incorrectly as an existing municipality instead of the former municipality it actually is. Montenois (talk) 11:05, 5 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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A tag has been placed on Category:Members of the Supreme Soviet of the Estonian Soviet Socialist Republic, 1955–1959 indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

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Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Limbaži Municipality, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Aloja. Such links are usually incorrect, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of unrelated topics with similar titles. (Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.)

It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, DPL bot (talk) 06:03, 7 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This is the discussion about the categories I promised to open.--Ymblanter (talk) 19:52, 8 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! Montenois (talk) 21:01, 8 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

A tag has been placed on Category:People from Yaltinsky Uyezd indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

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An article you recently created, Generalbezirk Lettland, is not suitable as written to remain published. It needs more citations from reliable, independent sources. (?) Information that can't be referenced should be removed (verifiability is of central importance on Wikipedia). I've moved your draft to draftspace (with a prefix of "Draft:" before the article title) where you can incubate the article with minimal disruption. When you feel the article meets Wikipedia's general notability guideline and thus is ready for mainspace, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page. scope_creep^Talk 00:22, 12 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I see you've been adding stress marks to the cyrillic versions of Russian names. This is deprecated, Wikipedia:Stress marks in Russian words has some of the reasoning behind why this is. There's a general effort to take them out of articles where they have appeared, usually copied over from ru wiki and others. Best regards! Spokoyni (talk) 00:15, 29 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

1. Since there is an English version of the reference page, could you please add that instead of the Russian version.
2. I'm making some fixes to Rylsky Uyezd. If you could do the same fixes in your other similar articles, it would be great.
3. Also, do you have more sources for these articles? A single source is usually frowned upon. -MPGuy2824 (talk) 10:03, 26 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure that adding "He was a slaveowner" to congressional bios based on the article from The Washington Post is sufficient. How about some context? How many slaves did the individual own? Did he buy or sell them? Did he manumit them? Did he belong to a manumission or colonization society? Did he change his views on slavery over the long term?

For example, look at the Stephen Van Rensselaer IV article. He owned a certain number of slaves, and by the time New York's gradual emancipation law took effect, he owned none. He also belonged to one or more colonization societies. I believe those details are more useful than merely saying that someone owned slaves.

What do you think? Billmckern (talk) 16:36, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

a) Wikipedia is a communal project. The vast majority of articles consist of facts (preferably sourced ones) presented by many individual contributors. b) That every single congressman or senator in that Washington Post database did own slaves is a proven fact. Any sane person will agree that having owned slaves is a very relevant part of a person's biography. This means that we have no right to leave it unmentioned. That would be suppressing the truth. In other words: censorship. c) As I said, Wikipedia is a communal project. No individual contributor is required or expected to provide every possible detail about the subject they write about. On the other hand, every contributor is free to provide additional details/additional context, if they have sources for those. Montenois (talk) 19:32, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Montenois: Disagree. But thanks for replying. Billmckern (talk) 12:20, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Billmckern, the problem with context is significant, but there are two other issues. The first is that the source to these additions is not The Washington Post but some other website referencing a Washington Post study. Secondly, the URL does not contain any of their names. I argue in favor of reverting all of these additions as unsourced and without context. I already removed a change from one of the articles without realizing that the information was added to many others. But if you are in agreement, I can begin reverting. Display name 99 (talk) 18:32, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Here is yet another problem. I just found one of your changes in which you introduced content cited to this source about slaveowners in between two pieces of content cited to the same source without bothering to create a second link to the pre-existing source in order to make clear what part of the original context was referenced to. As a result, a reader could mistakenly think some of the information was sourced to the link that you added, rather than the original source. This does a disservice to our readers.

Reverting these changes is going to be a massive task, but I think it has to be done. Display name 99 (talk) 18:38, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

There would be no justification for doing so. That Washington Post database in a reliable source. Reverting the information about those members of Congress having owned slaves would amount to suppressing proven facts. By the way, I'm not exactly the only one who has been adding them. In fact, the vast majority of the information about members of Congress having owned slaves has been added by other contributors than myself. It's easy to predict that a proposal to censor that information would meet with very significant opposition and would be seen as extremely contoversial.Montenois (talk) 19:16, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Your link does not appear to be to the WaPo database but to a different website speaking about something which is supposedly in the WaPO database. Additionally, as I stated, your link does not include any names of the people who supposedly owned slaves, meaning that it's unclear how the information should be verified. How does one get to the list? Why isn't the link to the list itself? There is only one person that I am aware of here who has been adding improperly sourced and out of context information about slaveholding to a massive number of articles on antebellum American statesmen. That's you. Display name 99 (talk) 19:42, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Find reliable sources which specifically say that all of these men owned slaves, preferably with some context. If you can do that, I would have no problem with it being added to the articles. My issue is with bad sourcing. Throwing around accusations of censorship rather than listening to what I am trying to say isn't really helping. Display name 99 (talk) 19:46, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

You are quite simply mistaken, on several levels. All you had to do was to click on this WaPo link which was included in the github link: https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/interactive/2022/congress-slaveowners-names-list/ Montenois (talk) 20:43, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I could of course have used that direct WaPo link, but I copied the github link from another contributor who had been using it as a source in a similar fashion. I decided that it would be a good idea to follow his (or her?) example. It simply didn't occur to me that someone would actually fail to find that WaPo link inside the github link. Montenois (talk) 21:00, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for providing the article. Regardless of what the other editor did, I do not think that using the github link is a good idea. What would be the reason for linking to the github site and not simply linking directly to the article? It just forces the reader to go through an extra step in order to get to the extra database, and for no reason. Wouldn't it be better simply to link to the WaPo article? I attempted to click on the database from the article but was unable to do so. If you can, I think that it might be even more convenient to readers to link the database itself.

Basically, the problem is that, although the list that your basing your additions off of certainly seems reliable, you're linking to a questionable-looking third party source for no apparent reason. That third-party source brings the individual to the WaPo article, and it's from there that someone has to find the actual list. It's too many steps. I strongly suggest replacing all of the links in the additions by linking directly to the WaPO article or to the list itself. If you agree to that, I will revert my changes to the two articles where I undid your additions. Display name 99 (talk) 22:18, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

OK, I can do that. Montenois (talk) 07:18, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It's done. Montenois (talk) 15:09, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. I have restored the material to the two articles from which I removed it. Display name 99 (talk) 15:23, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I've worked it into the lead a little cleaner (slaveholding is already mentioned and cited in the body, so the WaPo cite doesn't need to be in the lead per WP:LEADCITE). Out of curiousity, is there a specific reason why you removed Category:Assassinated American politicians? Hog Farm _Talk 19:24, 14 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

My mistake. I glanced through the article so rapidly that I didn't notice that the fact of his slaveholding was already mentioned. As for Category:Assassinated American politicians, it wasn't my intention to remove it. Obviously it needs to be there. Thanks for correcting that. Montenois (talk) 19:32, 14 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

You're welcome! I rewrote Hindman's article earlier this year, and was surprised to see that it minimized mention of slavery - the revision that originally passed FAC in 2007 avoids the issue entirely. Hog Farm _Talk 20:24, 14 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:People from Zarinsk has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Rathfelder (talk) 10:14, 6 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Category:People from Mayminsky District has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Rathfelder (talk) 12:17, 6 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Category:People from Shebalinsky District has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Rathfelder (talk) 12:17, 6 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Category:People from Ivanovsky District, Amur Oblast has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Rathfelder (talk) 12:22, 6 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Category:People from Mikhaylovsky District, Amur Oblast has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Rathfelder (talk) 12:22, 6 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Category:People from Privolzhsky District, Astrakhan Oblast has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Rathfelder (talk) 12:37, 6 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Category:People from Baltachevsky District has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Rathfelder (talk) 21:36, 6 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Category:People from Chekmagushevsky District has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Rathfelder (talk) 21:37, 6 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Category:People from Gafuriysky District has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Rathfelder (talk) 21:38, 6 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Category:People from Ilishevsky District has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Rathfelder (talk) 21:39, 6 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Category:People from Kaltasinsky District has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Rathfelder (talk) 21:40, 6 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Category:People from Chernyansky District has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Rathfelder (talk) 21:57, 6 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Category:People from Kurumkansky District has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Rathfelder (talk) 22:16, 6 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Category:People from Kyakhtinsky District has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Rathfelder (talk) 22:17, 6 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Category:People from Yetkulsky District has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Rathfelder (talk) 21:20, 7 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Category:People from Vurnarsky District has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Rathfelder (talk) 21:33, 7 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Category:People from Yantikovsky District has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Rathfelder (talk) 21:33, 7 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Category:People from Bokhansky District has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Rathfelder (talk) 18:29, 8 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Category:People from Slyudyansky District has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Rathfelder (talk) 18:32, 8 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Category:People from Zhigalovsky District has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Rathfelder (talk) 18:34, 8 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Category:People from Baltiysky District, Kaliningrad Oblast has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Rathfelder (talk) 18:06, 9 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Category:People from Dzerzhinsky District, Kaluga Oblast has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Rathfelder (talk) 18:31, 9 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Category:People from Nogaysky District, Karachay-Cherkess Republic has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Rathfelder (talk) 18:40, 9 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Category:People from Oparinsky District has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Rathfelder (talk) 19:04, 9 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Category:People from Verkhoshizhemsky District has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Rathfelder (talk) 19:07, 9 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Category:People from Galichsky District has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Rathfelder (talk) 19:20, 9 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Category:People from Sharyinsky District has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Rathfelder (talk) 19:22, 9 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Category:People from Lgovsky District has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Rathfelder (talk) 19:38, 9 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Category:People from Shchigrovsky District has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Rathfelder (talk) 19:38, 9 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Category:People from Lodeynopolsky District has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Rathfelder (talk) 10:22, 11 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Category:People from Serpukhovsky District has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Rathfelder (talk) 08:41, 12 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Category:People from Shakhovskoy District has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Rathfelder (talk) 08:41, 12 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Category:People from Shimsky District has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Rathfelder (talk) 10:16, 13 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Category:People from Dmitrovsky District, Oryol Oblast has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Rathfelder (talk) 08:43, 14 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]