User talk:Natalie.Desautels

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Hi, Natalie -- At your suggestion, I've been reading the Michael Laucke article again. You'll see that I've made a few minor copy-edits to improve the sentences. Hope you approve. There are a few things I wanted to ask you about regarding the first two sentences in Michael Laucke#Early career:

• In 1961 Frank Angelo became Laucke's first manager. Laucke performed his first concert of atonal music in Montreal in 1965, with the Quebec Contemporary Music Society‍—‌Société de musique contemporaine du Québec (SMCQ) in French.

1) Just from a stylistic point of view, I'd like to avoid the repetition of "Laucke" so close in proximity (so near each other). I'm going to work on that, but before I do, I want to ask you something about the second sentence:

• Laucke performed his first concert of atonal music in Montreal in 1965, with the Quebec Contemporary Music Society‍—‌Société de musique contemporaine du Québec (SMCQ) in French.

This sounds like he performed his first concert of atonal music in 1965, and there were many other performances of atonal music following it. It even sounds as if atonal music is what he is known for. I'm not sure that's what you meant. If this was indeed his first performance playing the guitar, and it just happened to be a concert of atonal music, then the sentence needs to be worded differently, something like this:

• Laucke performed his first guitar concert in Montreal in 1965, a program of atonal music with the Quebec Contemporary Music Society.

Was Frank Angelo Michael Laucke's manager when he performed in Montreal in 1965? If so, perhaps:

• With Frank Angelo as his manager since 1961, Laucke performed his first guitar concert in Montreal in 1965...

or:

• In 1961 Laucke hired Frank Angelo as his first manager, four years later performing his first guitar concert... /his first concert...

Either way, you avoid using "Laucke" twice.  – Corinne (talk) 00:59, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Checkingfax:

Hi Corinne, How wonderful that you were able to help with some very fine copy-edits to improve the sentences. I much appreciated these improvements, to be sure. I opted for

"With Frank Angelo as his manager since 1961, Laucke performed his first guitar concert in Montreal in 1965, a program of atonal music with the Quebec Contemporary Music Society‍—‌‍—‌Société de musique contemporaine du Québec (SMCQ) in French."

I have been wondering about the above sentence structure for some time now. The "Quebec Contemporary Music Society" is wikilinked, and has its own English page (which I contributed to). Do you feel it necessary to include "Société de musique contemporaine du Québec (SMCQ) in French", as it now stands? Wouldn't this be more appropriate on the French Wikipedia? Also, if one does keep the original French name for this society, do we really have to tell readers that it is "in French". My feeling is that we should just go with Quebec Contemporary Music Society‍. Again, my gratitude for your attractive edits. warm regards, Natalie --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 07:14, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, Natalie -- I'm glad to help. Regarding the French name of the music group, I've usually seen the name given first in the language of the country (in italics), followed by the translation in English – in parentheses, regular font. However, since Canada is, I believe, officially a bilingual country, I suppose either title could go first, with the other in parentheses following it, but no "in French". Since it is, after all, Quebec, my preference is for French first, followed by English in parentheses.  – Corinne (talk) 14:14, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Corinne Thanks so much for this sound advice, now implemented as "French first, followed by English in parentheses" . I also wiki-linked the French name to redirect to the French Wikipedia. best wishes, Natalie --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 23:05, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Checkingfax and Pdebee:

Hi Corinne, It's me again with two questions. A) What are your thoughts on this sentence, taken from the Transcriptions section; my changes are in bold. "SOCAN lists 112 classical works transcribed for the guitar by Laucke, thus further broadening the guitar's repertoire in music of the renaissance, classical and romantic eras, as well as in flamenco." It seems awkward to me. B) I elaborated more briefly, as appropriate, on transcriptions in the lead section as followsː "Laucke is credited with having broadened the repertoire of the guitar with over 100 transcriptions of classical and flamenco music." ...mon immense gratitude, Natalie --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 00:19, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

La deuxième phrase, du lead, est parfaite, mais il y a des problèmes avec la première phrase. Il paraît que les mots "thus further broadening" s'appliquent à l'action de faire partie de la liste (par SOCAN), pas au travaille de Laucke. Je pense ce que l'on veut içi c'est de clarifier que c'est le travaille de Laucke qui a étendu la le repertoire de la guitare. Je suggère:

• SOCAN lists 112 classical works transcribed for the guitar by Laucke, illustrating the extent to which Lauke has broadened the guitar's repertoire in music of the Renaissance, classical, and romantic eras, as well as in flamenco.

(Je ne comprends pas pour quoi vous avez "further", en "further broadening". Sauf dans le lead, est-ce que vous l'avez mentionné?). That's enough French. Just wanted to try writing something in French, the first time in many years. It's probably full of mistakes.  – Corinne (talk) 01:07, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I'd better ask this question in English: Was it the listing by SOCAN that broadened the guitar repertoire, or was it Michael Laucke's transcription work that broadened the guitar repertoire? If the former, then the sentence is all right. If the latter, perhaps something like the version I suggested just above.  – Corinne (talk) 01:45, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Checkingfax:

Bonjour Corinne, Now that was very cute! ...a very noble attempt indeed, especially if you haven't had occasion to speak French in so long. I corrected the few spelling errors found (in bold and strike-through), but didn't really bother to restructure the syntax too much. (I was getting worried actually; my best and kindest English writing contact and now she's writing to me in French :). ...just joking of course; feel free any time... Thanks so much for this help; it's much clearer now. Yes, I did mention "broadening" in the lead. And, it's Michael Laucke's transcription work that broadened the guitar repertoire; I implemented this change accordingly. kindest regards, Natalie --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 02:17, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, Natalie -- At Checkingfax's suggestion, I am going through the article once more in an attempt to improve the wording and organization. By now you will have seen that I've made some bold edits. If you have any questions about them, I'm happy to discuss and/or explain them. I'm not finished yet, not even with the beginning of the article. I want to ask you about the sentence near the beginning:

• He was selected in 1982 by Andrés Segovia to perform for the PBS network at the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York City, following which he became Segovia's pupil.

I'm not happy with the placement of "in 1982", so am still thinking of what to do. I had moved it to the middle of the sentence to avoid having two years so close to each other. But now, upon thinking about it, I think the year he performed for the PBS network at the Metropolitan Museum of Art is more important than the year he was selected for it. I don't know if the year is the same or different. If it is different, and if you agree with me, can you tell me the year he performed at the Met? If it is the same, then I will have the option of moving "in 1982" to a different place in the sentence. Please let me know.  – Corinne (talk) 00:23, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Checkingfax, Corinne, and Sainsf:

Hello, User:Corinne, First of all, I must express my gratitude for your help; it is a privilege to have on board someone with such exquisite English language skills—no embarrassment effect intended. The year that Laucke won a competition to study with Segovia and then to perform in the PBS Met film are the same; to wit, 1982. I agree that performing for the PBS network at the Metropolitan Museum of Art is more important than being selected for it, but the year is the same. I will now take the pleasure to address your other queries. --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 09:46, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

In the section Michael Laucke#Paco de Lucia you have Villa-Lobos linked with a pipe so that it appears as Villa-lobos, but in Michael Laucke#Transcriptions you have it as simply Villa-Lobos. Shouldn't these be consistent?

I notice toward the beginning of the article after the lead, you mention his age several times, sometimes as "thirteen" and sometimes as "13". These should be consistent, too. Which do you prefer?  – Corinne (talk) 01:21, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Checkingfax, Corinne, and Sainsf:

Hi User:Corinne, Yes, the syntax for Villa-Lobos should be consistent. I will defer to User:Checkingfax to choose one or the other. Both piped and non piped versions give the same result from a user-interface point of view, but code-behind should be consistent.

I tend to think of the spelled out version, "thirteen", as more imbued with ceremony, as used in "Four score and seven years ago", and "13" as, well, sort of scientific. I might opt for the "thirteen" style, for the age of a person. --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 10:10, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Natalie, I'd just like to offer my opinion regarding two places in the article. It's just an opinion, so you can disregard it. I think the part about Chenier going to Europe and not recognizing Laucke upon his return is clever, but not appropriate here. It has little to do with Laucke's career as a guitarist, composer, and music businessman, and I think it is an unnecessary distraction. I also think the part about Paco de Lucia practicing in the bathroom because he liked the sound of the music reflecting off the tiles is unnecessary. I know you mention the tiles a little later, but you can express Laucke's reaction to the sound of de Lucia's music without mentioning the bathroom tiles. I think it is just a little too much information that is not necessary, and not really encyclopedic in tone. Finally, in the first sentence of the article, you mention that he is a "music industry businessman". Maybe I've missed it, but I don't see any direct mention of him as a "music industry businessman". Can you point me to any discussion of him as a businessman? If you mean that he is a businessman just by virtue of having made many recordings, or being a performer, then I think you've got to define "businessman". To me, he seems to be more of a "music professional". Correct me if I'm wrong.  – Corinne (talk) 01:44, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with Corinne, she has explained my discomfort with the first two inclusions very well. My suggestion would be to exclude these points from the article, we don't want the article to lose focus. Sainsf <^>_{Feel at home} 09:56, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Checkingfax, Corinne, and Sainsf:

Hi User:Corinne, I felt the anecdote on Chenier was kind of fun, but I see your point of course. Perhaps a text that is just a bit on the edge of encyclopedic may remain more in the reader's mind though. Nevertheless, I agree that the remark in and of itself has little to do with Laucke's career as a guitarist, composer, and music businessman. If it is seen as an unnecessary distraction, and construed as losing focus, than certainly it must be deleted.

I will be submitting my thoughts, probably within an hour or so, on the tile issue as well as the Paco de Lucia section in general and its life-changing experience for Laucke as an artist. The resonance of the tiles is more meaningful if explained properly ...more on this in a bit... I hope there will be some glimmer of interest in my little preamble to come, and that it will be in the best interest of the encyclopedia and those who read it and keep it alive. Thanks for bearing with me!

Regarding the "music industry businessman", Laucke apparently produced CDs, albums and some very large shows out of his own company, called Michael Laucke and Company; he produced concerts as agent/manager/impresario for 10 years at Place des Arts in Montreal and elsewhere. There are several mainstream newspaper articles mentioning his role as producer/businessman, such as When Laucke plays the guitar, he means business. The first paragraph is quite clear, especially, "He is a private enterprise of some complexity". There are many others though... So I believe he can be called a "music industry businessman". ...Thank you kindly for your interesting input on this. Natalie.Desautels (talk) 12:35, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

In the Michael Laucke#Articles section is the following sentence:

• Laucke has published several articles in music journals about the growth of the guitar in Canada:

This is perhaps nitpicking a little, but I paused upon reading "the growth of the guitar". A guitar cannot grow. Interest in the guitar can grow. The guitar can grow in popularity. Interest in guitar studies can grow. Guitar sales can grow. But a guitar cannot grow. I know there is a (probably translated) title with the same phrase below this, but that does not mean that the wording of this sentence cannot be improved.

• Laucke has published several articles in music journals about the growth of interest in the guitar in Canada.

• Laucke has published several articles in music journals about the increased interest in the guitar in Canada.

• Laucke has published several articles in music journals about the growth in popularity of the guitar in Canada. (etc.)  – Corinne (talk) 01:55, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Checkingfax, Corinne, and Sainsf:

Hi User:Corinne, You are perfectly right; a guitar cannot grow, even if you water it ! The actual articles talk about the increasing popularity of the guitar in Canada, so I would opt for

• Laucke has published several articles in music journals about the growth in popularity of the guitar in Canada.

My reasoning is that there can be growth of interest, or increased interest, but that doesn't necessarily lead to actual popularity which is what the articles are about. very best wishes, Natalie.Desautels (talk) 12:54, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I fixed this sentence. Regarding the Villa-Lobos issue I mentioned above, I wasn't referring to the fact that one was piped and the other wasn't. Perhaps I wasn't clear, but I was pointing out that one had "Lobos" capitalized and the other had it lower-case.  – Corinne (talk) 14:28, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

User:Corinne Thank you; I found a few lower-case 'l's and corrected them. (Now the wolf (Lobos) can make his way back into town (Villa)) kindest regards, Natalie Natalie.Desautels (talk) 18:57, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, Natalie -- Congratulations on achieving GA status for this article! You worked hard on it and it is well deserved. I was just curious about something. I had suggested earlier that you remove the bit about Chenier going to Europe, and not recognizing Laucke upon his return, and you seemed to agree. I just looked and see that you only removed part of it but left this:

• When Laucke was 13, Chenier left for Europe. Laucke did not see him again until four years later, when they faced each other in the North American snooker championships in Montreal. During that period, Laucke had changed so much that Chenier did not recognize him nor remember his name. Laucke asked Chenier if he recalled the name Le jeune Mike (young Mike).

I think you should remove all of this. The only part that may be important to keep is that when they faced each other in the competition, Laucke beat out Chenier and won the championship. The way it is now, with all of this left in, there is a disconnect and an uncomfortable transition to the next sentence beginning "Laucke recalls, 'Then I decided to leave snooker'".  – Corinne (talk) 15:17, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

User:Corinne. I made an error, probably from working too fast. It now stands corrected. Many thanks. best wishes, as always, --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 23:30, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Natalie, you had "Flamenco Road" in italics before, and now it is in Roman (regular) font. Did you want it to be in italics?  – User:Corinne (talk) 19:22, 17 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Corinne. Thank you for pointing this out. As Checkingfax mentioned, all album titles should be in italics so it has now been corrected. Natalie.Desautels (talk) 19:44, 17 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Natalie.Desautels: Dear Natalie,
I hope you are keeping well and I am aware you are very busy; so, I will aim to be brief and to the point.
As you requested, I have now looked at the subject article again and, instead of interfering with the current editorial activity, I have decided simply to offer suggestions for your consideration. These are changes I would apply to the article myself if it had been included in the regular crop of articles put forward for copy editing by Suggestbot. However, since there are already quite a few editors participating in this GA review and also editing in situ, I will offer my editorial suggestions from the sidelines and will leave it entirely up to you to decide for or against them, and to apply them yourself if you decide they have merit. I hope to be helpful to you with this approach, while also staying out of the way of the 'lead' reviewers, so that we don't end up in the proverbial "too many chefs in the kitchen" situation.
I have therefore created a new section for you in one of my drafting sandboxes. (Please ignore the other sections in there.)
The format I've adopted for this specific process is a bulleted list—with a bullet for each of the article's sections—showing selected (and numbered) sentences as they are currently worded in the article, along with editorial amendments such as words stricken through, or alternative wording offered for your consideration. Where appropriate, I have also given you a rationale for the proposed alterations, but might not always do so. Finally, I have only reviewed the lead section so far, to give you an opportunity to comment on whether or not you find this approach useful. I would obviously remain sensitive to your preferences and will aim to adjust my contributions accordingly. I will then proceed sequentially and review all sections from top to bottom, while also keeping abreast of comments and edits made by the other reviewers; my intent is to help and support rather than hinder and obstruct.
I am very pleased for you that the GA review is now well under way and I wish you good luck for a successful outcome.
With kindest regards for now;
Patrick. ツ Pdebee.^{(talk)(guestbook)} 10:54, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Dear User:Pdebee ...so good of you to write and express your ideas with a view towards further improvement to the GAR article. On one of your drafting sandboxes, I found almost all of your ideas most excellent and am excited about implementing them during the course of the evening. I truly appreciate your time, effort and thought; your kind and very good-natured gesture did not go unnoticed Tous mes meilleurs vœux, mon cyber-ami , Natalie --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 23:20, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Natalie.Desautels: Dear Natalie,

Thank you for your lovely replies, above and also in my sandbox. It's a real pleasure to assist you, Natalie, and I will now carry on reviewing each section one by one, since this approach seems to work well for you. Also, please be assured that my suggestions are always offered for your consideration; therefore, please continue to challenge (in your customary very nice way ) any suggestion with which you are not satisfied; what is important is that we all strive to make the article as excellent as it can be, and this is best achieved through this kind of iteration: it takes much elbow grease to polish a precious stone. [I wish I could claim this was an ancient Navajo saying but, regrettably, I've only just made it up... ]

Seriously, though, I will respond later today to the additional information you added, in my sandbox, about Laucke and Segovia; please kindly look there at your convenience and let me know if you like that new suggestion better. In any case, I hope it will help some more.

Finally, thank you once again for inviting me to join your team of reviewers; to me, it feels like you've entrusted each of us to nurture your baby and, for my part, I am grateful for your trust and confidence. Merci mille fois, Natalie. .

With kindest regards;

Patrick. ツ Pdebee.^{(talk)(guestbook)} 09:02, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

(talk page stalker). Hi, Natalie. Be sure to attribute Patrick and his sandbox in the edit summary if you do a direct copy/paste of any suggestions. This is for the copyright paper trail. If you totally rewrite his suggestions in your own words, and only use his words for inspiration, then you can relax this requirement. Same goes for any copy/paste input you glean from Corinne and her awesome input. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 17:01, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Checkingfax and Pdebee: Checkingfax, gotcha! I try to suggest the editors do their own changes, once I begrudgingly approve . ...will keep copyright issue in mind. Important. very best wishes, --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 17:11, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

	The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar
	Too little an appreciation for your large heart and impeccable politeness! It beats me how you have not got a dozen of these yet. You are one of the kindest and cheerful I have met here! Sainsf <^>Feel at home 13:09, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Dear User:Sainsf, My goodness, what a pleasant surprise! ...and just in time to delight in along with my morning expresso and of course breakfast croissant, as we French are wont to do. Top of the morning to you, my cyber friend and colleague Natalie Natalie.Desautels (talk) 13:50, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hehe, may you be sunshiny and spread your charm everywhere! Sainsf <^>_{Feel at home} 13:55, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

PS. User:Sainsf, Indeed, music equals fulfillment and "music is the trade of love" (Shakespeare). I've only been here just over one year (although I've enjoyed making over 3500 edits), so perhaps I'll have the pleasure of gathering more nice barnstars as time goes by. But I'll always enjoy the adventure of it all, come what may Thanks again. Natalie --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 14:05, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, I used to be mad for barnstars in my early days (you won't believe that I once asked a user to reward me, and he made me understand that barnstars make you more happy when won, not when offered; never mind, that was a long five years ago!) I am sure you will be an Awesome Wikipedian in the coming days if you go on like this. Cheers! Sainsf <^>_{Feel at home} 14:23, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Cher User:Sainsf, Je vous remercie infiniment (dhanyavaad, dayaaluta ke saath) Natalie Natalie.Desautels (talk) 20:25, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

	The Cheerfulness Award
	Echoing Sainsf, Natalie, you are a breath of cheerfulness on WP. With your sweet, kind, polite, appreciative nature, and your delightful sense of humor, you make Wikipedia a better place in which to volunteer.  – Corinne (talk) 14:19, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Wow. ...All I can say is a B.I.G. ... ....

Seriousness aside (as Groucho Marx used to say), this is very heartwarming ...and meaningful to me. Thank you. --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 14:43, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

		The Excellent New Editor's Barnstar A new editor on the right path
		Dear Natalie, I am over the Moon for you, now that your very first brand new article has successfully reached the hallowed heights of GA status! This is a considerable achievement and you should feel very proud of your success with it, as much as we—your Wiki-friends—feel so very proud of you! Throughout this effort, and with wonderful assistance from our friends @Checkingfax: and @Corinne:, you have shown great skill and determination in learning many aspects of developing an article for our encyclopedia, thus becoming very rapidly acquainted with the myriad of editorial guidelines and facilities that constitute this special Wiki-universe we inhabit, as its editors. For all this, very well done for your focus in becoming familiar, so quickly and expertly, with this new environment. In addition, and on a more personal level, you have impressed me (and several other editors, evidently) with your diligence, politeness, kindness, good humour and wit. In fact, so much so that I consider you simply as a lovely, trusted friend and I would feel honoured to work with you again, any time, and on any future project. For all these reasons, dear Natalie, I send you my warmest congratulations on this important milestone in your life as a Wikipedian editor! Long may you continue to excel here!! With much love and kindest regards; Patrick. ツ Pdebee.(talk)(guestbook) 16:06, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply] P.S. Of course, I will continue to expect great things from your future contributions!

That's so kind, really . I sent you a Teamwork barnstar in appreciation for your fantastic contributions, particularly on that special page you especially created to help us. Future contributions ...hm, I guess that might be the Quebec French article we were working on. I would love that! kindest regards, --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 21:56, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, congrats, Natalie. I was the nom, but you pulled the train. When you came into the Teahouse I was not optimistic about me being of any significant use to you or to your article, but I was, you proved me wrong, and I have learned so much from you, and from the process. I wish I could gush like Patrick, but I was not raised that way. Corinne was a big part of this promotion too with her keen eye, as were the aggregate efforts of the other 50+ editors that participated in the evolution of the Michael Laucke article. Sainsf really put things over the top. Tread lightly on this new promotion. We do not want to throw the baby out with the bathwater, in case you have any big plans for change. We should look at the original sandbox version for kicks. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 21:01, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Checkingfax, I sent a few very well deserved barnstars around for all those who contributed in achieving GA status for Michael Laucke but now it's your turn and I am, contrary to my chatty nature, a bit at a loss in front of all, and I do mean ALL, you have done to help, guide, teach, encourage, and more, much more. ...and always in such a timely manner. I really think I would have been lost without your help. I probably would have made my way after a couple of years of wading through the rules and policies which you made short work of, not an easy achievement by any means! A good amount of my 'cheery nature' here comes from the helping atmosphere you provided. (Don't mean to embarrass you but I am one of those outgoing French people, after all. ) But try we must , so a Teamwork barnstar is on its way to you. Sincerest gratitude, --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 22:21, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I think I read somewhere above that you love falafel... I felt sure you would have missed it a lot when you were devoting all your time to this superb article! Take this as a treat from my side! Sainsf <^>Feel at home 02:45, 10 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Checkingfax and Corinne: User:Sainsf, Many thanks. It would be appropriate, in this gastronomic instance, to say Yum, which would be Miam in French. I always found the onomatopoeic differences in languages interesting; there is often a very different equivalent. Does that mean that sounds strike our ears differently according to the language we speak? A cat says Meow in English, but Miaou in French; a cow says Moo, but Meuh in French—not close really. Interesting food for thought... --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 02:59, 10 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I always found that interesting, too.

• English: List of animal sounds, List of onomatopoeias

• Spanish: [1] and [2]

• French: [3] and [4]  – Corinne (talk) 04:20, 10 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Corinne, I'm in a bit of a rush now (contrary to my philosophy that life is too short to rush through it ). I just want to send my thanks for these absolutely fantastic links. I'm excited to take time to go over each sound in each language; I already found a great many sounds I didn't know. It's also interesting that some onomatopoeic sounds exist in one language whereas only a discription of the sound might exist in another. A dog says 'woof' but in French and Spanish you can only describe the sound with a verb "Le chien aboyait", "El perro estaba ladrando" and so on. ...got to run or I'll get carried away again . Bye for now. --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 18:40, 10 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Natalie.Desautels and Corinne: Dear Natalie and Corinne,

When I read your interesting exchange above, about animal noises, it reminded me that in European French, dogs are deemed to say "Ouaf Ouaf"... There are a couple of videos with that sound as a title on YT, including this one: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5SDGzixYDPY

The words "Ouaf Ouaf" are also spoken (by humans!) as a European French expression to mean the exact equivalent of the anglophone "Very droll!", i.e. a comment made to someone whose joke was not particularly funny. On the other hand, when Brits want to indicate that they find a quip particularly witty, they would often say "Boom-Boom!", which I believe originated from the music-hall gag of emphasising (a posteriori) a punch line for members of the audience who had missed it.

I wonder if, like me, you sometimes try to imagine the real situation that triggered the advent of an idiomatic expression? For example, what could have prompted someone to select the very words "I am over the Moon" for the first time? We use these expressions all the time for their metaphorical meaning, of course, but I often find myself trying to 'listen' to them in their literal form, thus discovering how truly poetic some of them are.
Anyway, sorry for the digression! Keep well and joyful, and have a very pleasant day.

With kind regards;

Patrick. ツ Pdebee.^{(talk)(guestbook)} 09:22, 11 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Pdebee, Checkingfax, and Corinne: Hi User:Pdebee Thanks for this generous and interesting information as well as the cute video . Indeed, I haven't heard "Ouaf Ouaf" here in Quebec ...maybe it's too cold! . Warmest regards and renewed thanks, Natalie --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 20:10, 11 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Pdebee Thanks also from me for your interesting comment and the link to the cute videos. I've seen books that detail the origin of a lot of idiomatic expressions. They're quite interesting. That's just as interesting to me as how speakers of different languages have different "words" for the sounds of the same animal. I wonder, do they actually hear the animal's sound differently, or do they hear it the same but just come up with a different representation of it?  – Corinne (talk) 03:11, 14 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Pdebee and Checkingfax: Hi Corinne , I would say the latter, since the waveform of the actual sound is scientifically the same, just as a C# is still the same note regardless of who is hearing it. Of course that brings up the perennial discussion as to whether everyone sees the same color green... Nonetheless (néanmoins ), I would contend that the language adapts to express the animal sound, that we hear it the same— as much as that is possible (since it is scientifically unproven), and that we attempt to express it with the idiomatic human language sounds available, as pronounced by all vocal mechanisms responsible for emitting sound in each specific language. Natalie.Desautels (talk) 04:50, 14 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Pdebee and Checkingfax: Hi again Corinne , In a similar vein, I was once translating between two uni-lingual English and French musicians. The French singer had some problems with her voice and the English musician said to her 'Oh, you have a frog in your throat.' I told the French singer that what he said meant "Vous avez un chat dans la gorge". Hearing this and knowing a little French, the English musician then declared, in Huckleberry Finn fashion, "My goodness, they have a different word for everything!". This is a true story and as you probably know, one says frog in English but cat in French. Seriousness aside, the explanation I later found was that the creature, a frog or a cat, was present in the region where the expression first came to be. Thanks for letting me share this little anecdote with you. kind regards, Natalie Natalie.Desautels (talk) 05:02, 14 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The editing interface will be changed soon. When that happens, editors who currently see two editing tabs – "Edit" and "Edit source" – will start seeing one edit tab instead. The single edit tab has been popular at other Wikipedias. When this is deployed here, you may be offered the opportunity to choose your preferred appearance and behavior the next time you click the Edit button. You will also be able to change your settings in the Editing section of Special:Preferences.

You can choose one or two edit tabs. If you chose one edit tab, then you can switch between the two editing environments by clicking the buttons in the toolbar (shown in the screenshots). See Help:VisualEditor/User guide#Switching between the visual and wikitext editors for more information and screenshots.

There is more information about this interface change at mw:VisualEditor/Single edit tab. If you have questions, suggestions, or problems to report, then please leave a note at Wikipedia:VisualEditor/Feedback.

Whatamidoing (WMF) 19:22, 11 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Natalie. Congrats on this Did You Know. Glad to see the article has progressed so well and thank you for all your invites to participate in issues regarding it. I merely reverted some vandalism there once so I hope I don't sound rude when I say rather excuse me from the list of interested parties please. Many thanks and I hope you get it to Featured Article article status soon! Robvanvee 17:08, 25 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Robvanvee. Thank you kindly for taking the time to write and sending your gracious compliments (plural ); much appreciated, to be sure. I hadn't realized that your contributions were small in quantity albeit excellent in quality. As per your very polite request, I will be attentive to no longer pinging you, and look forward of course to a renewed and always productive crossing of paths. kindest regards, Natalie.Desautels (talk) 20:42, 25 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

		The Million Award
		For your contributions to bring Planned Parenthood (estimated annual readership: 1,793,486) to Good Article status, I hereby present you the Million Award. Congratulations on this rare accomplishment, and thanks for all you do for Wikipedia's readers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 04:41, 21 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Checkingfax A great many thanks and heartfelt appreciation for this lovely surprise. I am very proud to add this honor to my little collection. Warm regards, and with all my appreciation, Natalie Natalie.Desautels (talk) 17:13, 21 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hello! Natalie.Desautels, you are invited to the Teahouse, a forum on Wikipedia for new editors to ask questions about editing Wikipedia, and get support from peers and experienced editors. Please join us! Natalie.Desautels (talk) 19:31, 27 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, Natalie. I would encourage you to take a look at this important IEG proposal. If you like it, please add your support and rationale. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 23:11, 30 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks so much, Checkingfax, for making me aware of this excellent project. I have taken the pleasure of adding my support vote to it. kind regards, Natalie Desautels _{…as within, so without} 18:57, 1 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

You are invited to join invite to join the WikiProject Latin music, a WikiProject dedicated to improving articles related to music performed in Spanish, Portuguese and languages of Ibero-America. Simply click here to accept! Or, if you're interested in reading more on Latin music, you may want to check out the Latin music portal.

I saw on your user page that you are interested in flamenco and thought you might be interested. Erick (talk) 16:00, 3 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you so much Erick; ...very nice of you to make me aware of this! kind regards, Natalie

No problem, and I wish to welcome you to the Latin music project! Erick (talk) 17:10, 3 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

If you could help put that draft into more comprehensible English it would be much appreciated. Feel free to edit it whenever you have time. Then I could think more about rewriting it and adding sources.

For biographies of living people, the most important thing is almost always finding sources discussing them. Although as I showed on the talk page, there are exceptions. Doug Weller talk 18:01, 5 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Doug Weller, I would be pleased to take the pleasure to put this article in good shape, and into proper English, as time permits, hopefully over the next week. I was happy to find the original Spanish article on Peñas de Cabrera, which is well written and intact, and there's good material to be culled there, albeit without references. I found lots of good quality source material in Spanish through Google search so I'll help translating references too, if you wish. The pictures are gorgeous, to be sure—it almost makes me want to make a French version as well. ...very nice discovery. This is magnificent 'flamenco' country—Andalusia, where I spent lots of time but didn't know about Peñas de Cabrera. ...will write soon. kind regards, Natalie Desautels _{…as within, so without} 09:19, 6 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:52, 7 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hello:

The copy edit Checkingfax requested from the Guild of Copy Editors of your article Michael Laucke has been completed. (I've let them know.)

You'll notice that I moved information on his MAC activities from the "Highlights and Awards" section that was not in the "Personal Life" section to it, and deleted it from the former. I did not check the other "Highlights/Awards" to make sure that the information is also included in the appropriate section of the main body of the article; if it isn't, it should be. Having said that, I'm not sure whether a "Highlights and Awards" section is then necessary - it certainly does no harm. I checked the Segovia article and it doesn't have one.

When you have time, it would be a good idea to archive any URLs you used in your citations to avoid the future possibility of "dead" links.

Please let me know if you have any questions or concerns.

Kind regards,

Twofingered Typist (talk) 14:24, 10 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Checkingfax: Hello Twofingered Typist, Thank you so much for your wonderful editing on Michael Laucke. I would be amiss not to mention how much your fine touch improved the flow, readability, and clarity and makes the overall experience just more enjoyable and interesting. I wanted to extend my appreciation for your fine work and have taken the pleasure to send you a much deserved barnstar to add to your already impressive collection.

Your judicious use of the semi-colon did not go unnoticed and piqued my interest, as in 'Laucke studied with several classical guitar masters: ....' The application of this which I found most effective was before quotes, as in, 'Guitar and Lute magazine declared it: "One of the best...". This is what I think of as the 'magic touch'.

Anyway, ...not to get too carried away as time is always of the essence—and once spent, never comes back I've noticed :)—I would like to reciprocate by offering translation work, if need be. Should you ever need translations to and from French, Spanish or German, I am a proud code switcher (and receptive multilingual), enjoying several mother tongues and well diploma-ed and experienced in each. I would be happy to offer my service should the occasion arise; I think that you would not be better served.

Regarding the Highlights/Awards section, indeed, toward the end of this week and following your suggestion, I will be able to make sure that the information is also included in the appropriate section of the main body of the article. Although we do see Honors and awards sections for classical musicians from time to time, such as in Itzhak_Perlman, it is admittedly more frequently used in the pop field (where they tend to win lots of grammies ). Since Laucke was a strictly classical musician but went on to the more popular flamenco genre, I agree that including the Highlights/Awards section does no harm; in fact, it would probably also be of interest to readers who hurriedly skim over articles, not uncommon in the day and age .

Un gran merci une fois encore. Thank you again for your fabulous work. with kindest regards, Natalie Desautels _{…as within, so without} 22:18, 10 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

You are most welcome, I was very happy to help. Cheers Twofingered Typist (talk) 11:59, 11 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Checkingfax and Twofingered Typist: I just wanted to report that, as recommended, I have made sure that the information in the "Highlights/Awards" section is also included in the appropriate section of the main body of the article; and it is as it should be, for every item on the list of Highlights/Awards. kind regards, Natalie Desautels _{…as within, so without} 12:54, 11 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Alternative text for images. The alt text you added to the Michael Laucke article may not be helpful for the function it's designed for. For example, instead of "Laucke playing his classical guitar, smiling" in the infobox I would suggest "photograph of Laucke, seated in half profile, playing his guitar and smiling while looking away from the camera". Also, I'm not sure what "Laucke" will sound like in a screen reader, but https://translate.google.ca/#en/fr/Laucke might give you an idea. Of course any alt text is better than none. Thanks for improving the article. Walter Görlitz (talk) 06:32, 11 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Walter Görlitz, Thanks very much for your kind suggestions and very interesting ones at that; much appreciated. Indeed, I tried to adhere to Wikipedia:Alternative text for images. Longer, more interesting and descriptive alt tags, like the one you suggested, would be interesting, to be sure. And I found your suggestion attractive, well crafted and informative ...perfect actually. But in the section How to write alternative text, it says 'Alternative text should be short, such as "A basketball player"' and 'Very long descriptions can be left for the body of the article.' Some good examples are given here. So I decided to err on the side of caution and go with the short version for now, much as I would like to do otherwise, ...perhaps un-bold of me . Thanks also for the sound bite; in radio and TV broadcasts I've heard 'Laucke' pronounced quite like the reader you sent. kind regards, Natalie Desautels _{…as within, so without} 08:06, 11 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, Natalie and Walter Görlitz. My experience with people that use screen readers is that they crank up the speed of their screen readers and that they assimilate text very quickly by ear. There may be some impatience with image descriptions that are overly detailed. I am not sure. The advice in the Wikipedia alt text guidelines does mention keeping them short like the example cited by Natalie. I suck at writing alt text. May I suggest asking Graham87? He uses JAWS. I am also not sure if in a photograph it is necessary to say it is a photograph. Most images on Wikipedia are photographs unless they are scans. Even if they are paintings they are photographs of paintings, usually. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 17:44, 11 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, us screen reader users read text very fast, but partly that's because we can cut off speech at any time, so long descriptions aren't that big a problem if they're more, well, descriptive. I'd personally take the second alt text without the "photograph of ..." bit. JAWS pronounces "Laucke" as "lawk", to rhyme with "hawk". Graham87 01:33, 12 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, Graham87. Thanks for stopping by. Here is the 7-second flac of Laucke saying his own name, etc.: Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 20:21, 12 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Checkingfax: Hi Walter Görlitz. I got the go ahead from Graham87 for your excellent ALT text, and have taken the pleasure to implement it with due credit given to you and Graham87, of course, in the summary. I really appreciated your fine touch, and would be delighted if you could look over some of the seven remaining ones here, naturally as time permits. Graham87 uses the JAWS screen reader and says that long descriptions aren't a problem if they're descriptive, as yours so nicely was. I would insert your new ALT versions, have Graham87 listen, and then make adjustments as need be. Many thanks once again. kind regards, Natalie Desautels _{…as within, so without} 21:20, 12 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, the alt texts sound good. Graham87 01:25, 13 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Natalie.Desautels (cc @Checkingfax:) Here's something interesting for you, after your edits on the Sorcha Faal reports article the viewership number skyrocketed (at least in the terms for this article). How many followers do you have? Thanks. Picomtn (talk) 09:52, 11 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Checkingfax:) Hi Picomtn. I am delighted to hear that and especially glad that you are pleased. As soon as a few urgent matters subside, I intend to completely go through the article and implement the changes I forsaw, quite probably toward the end of this week, or going into the weekend. warm regards, Natalie Desautels _{…as within, so without} 12:18, 11 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, Picomtn. Every article Natalie touches has the same aftereffect. I put an external link to the SFR stats above. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 17:34, 11 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Michael Laucke page stats[edit]

Hi, Natalie and Picomtn. You can see page spikes here when Natalie was first editing the Michael Laucke article, during later edits, and on its May 7, 2016 DYK (1003 page views). Natalie has some magic hands. For instance, some of the page views are her edits, but she never made 576 edits in one day like it shows on November 12. I am sure Google did not crawl the page 576 times in one day. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 17:56, 11 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Picomtn: Hi, Checkingfax Thanks very much for the vote of confidence. Perhaps the high-ish stats are due to my several mother tongues, so that every count is automatically multiplied by four. ...just kidding, I know, it doesn't work that way . Hopefully I can work this magic into 'Sorcha Faal' and help give it the visibility and audience breadth that it's worthy of. This article is really interesting to me; as soon as I can clear my backlog a bit, I'm excited about continuing to build it up, probably towards this weekend. (I saved the source code, as I am wont to do, before the 'battle' as it were, as I believe some of it can be useful when re-worked). Obviously the more I understand about the subject, the better I should be able to help improve it. This article is rife with fantastic potential and an initial search turned up so many good quality and mainstream sources. I was wondering if it would be possible to make one article as a BLP for (pen name) 'Sorcha Faal' and at the same time have a Wikilink to 'Sorcha Faal reports', similar to music sites where you often see a main article and a link to a discography. It seems we can get many good quality, mainstream sources for 'Sorcha Faal reports'. A 'Controversy" section, as one also frequently sees, would be neat, interesting and Wikipedian in its fairness. kind regards, Natalie Desautels _{…as within, so without} 22:51, 12 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• I'm not sure I totally understand what you were missing here, but perhaps what you need is Navigation Popups? Go to your Preferences link atop any page, go to the Gadgets tab, and check "Navigation popups: article previews and editing functions pop up when hovering over links". There are many other useful gadgets there. BTW, as for scripts, IMO by far the most useful is "User:Ucucha/HarvErrors" although you may also have use for "User:Ucucha/duplinks". I see you already have the prose size script. You also have a couple others I'm unfamiliar with; I'll look at them. Cheers.   Lingzhi ♦ (talk) 00:23, 13 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Checkingfax: Top of the morning to you Lingzhi. This may seem long, but I'm addressing a few issues here that were left on various pages.

Preview bug: To see the little bug that occurs in my use of the Notes/Ref technology that I implemented; Go to Edit source (you don't have to make any edits). Hit Show Preview. Now go to the Notes section and click link 1, for example. It goes properly to the corresponding link in the text about guitar transcriptions[5]. Now if you click the little [5] just after transcriptions, program asks you to leave the page, whereby you will lose all changes of course. So now there are two choices. You can Save and then test the links afterwards. Or you can also right-click on the little [5] and "Open link in new tab", and the result in the new tab could serve as a Preview, albeit a bit jumpy/buggy. It's not such a bad bug really; there is a work-around after all. Not like that big cockroach that they found in one of the first mainframe computers that gave us the word 'bug' in the first place .

Navigation popups: I enabled this and it's quite handy, and installed Ucucha/HarvErrors and User:Ucucha/duplinks as well. Thanks for these neat tips. HarvErrors found nothing, but duplinks turned up some useful information and I analyzed the results. So there is some work to be done here, notwithstanding a few exceptions to the duplicate rule for infoboxes, tables, image captions and the like.

Fixes–the important as well as the various and sundry: I'd like to undertake all fixes over the week-end. I spent most of last night figuring out how to further simplify the multiple references you brought to light at the end of sentences. I have a good conception now of how to bring this to fruition. Also, a good rule to follow would be—when 2 consecutive references, fine and when 3 refs they have to be reduced. ...wondering how much time I have. I'm delighted to get these suggestions for final touches and my main goal is really that an article be as good as it can be. I mean an FA would be nice, but all these opportunities for fine tuning are exciting to me.

Three Gymnopedies or Trois Gymnopédies: Regarding your small edit here, I think it should be one or the other, and not both languages mixed in the same sentence, as Three Gymnopédies. I prefer using the English text in en-Wikipedia. I can't bring myself to change any edits by other editors, as it's not in my nature. So after this discussion, kindly feel free to re-edit, as you see fit. Language is really one of my fields of expertise, having translated back and forth from my several mother tongues since I was born it seems (...still one of my greatest pleasures). This of course doesn't make me right! (I'm a code switcher and receptive multilingual—diploma-ed too). Endless discussions often ensue about the Gymnopedies, like here.

So we might consider that:

• The original Satie guitar transcription by Laucke is a Canadian bilingual French/English edition; it spells Gymnopedies in English as do a great number of articles around the web, although some use the French spelling.
• Among musicians, few in the English world use the French pronunciation.
• In Satie's biography, he mentions the Greek word Gymnopaedia, as the source, which now has translations in many languages.
• When a musical work becomes well-known, as in this case, it is customary to translate the title; examples abound. Thus, as a French person, I'm loathe to say that Gymnopedie has become English

...hope I didn't digress; I've spent more time talking language in my life that sleeping!

Finally, my French translation of Michael Laucke uses only the French spelling, and my Spanish and German versions will use their own spelling as well. kind regards, Natalie Desautels _{…as within, so without} 13:20, 13 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• hey that script I told you about, Ucucha's Harv errors/warnings, coughed up these errors on yuor FAC nom:

• Cite error: A list-defined reference named "u.s._senate_program" is not used in the content (see the help page).
• Cite error: A list-defined reference named "beijing_china" is not used in the content (see the help page).
• Cite error: A list-defined reference named "wigmore_program" is not used in the content (see the help page).
• Cite error: A list-defined reference named "Hungary_newspaper_interview" is not used in the content (see the help page).
• Cite error: A list-defined reference named "old_malthouse" is not used in the content (see the help page).
• Cite error: A list-defined reference named "china_minister" is not used in the content (see the help page).
• Cite error: A list-defined reference named "andalusia" is not used in the content (see the help page).
• Cite error: A list-defined reference named "india_program" is not used in the content (see the help page).
• Cite error: A list-defined reference named "intoxicating" is not used in the content (see the help page).
• Cite error: A list-defined reference named "world_tours" is not used in the content (see the help page).
• Cite error: A list-defined reference named "hour-world_tours" is not used in the content (see the help page).
•   Lingzhi ♦ (talk) 01:08, 21 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Checkingfax: Thanks Lingzhi. Yep; ...saw them in bright red as soon as I visited the article right now. So I fixed these references which were just broken by an editor who removed some text in the body without its associated LDR ref; Lua's AI is still not advanced enough to read minds . kind regards, Natalie Desautels _{…as within, so without} 05:24, 21 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Ozone-oxygen cycle in the ozone layer. Hello, Natalie.Desautels. The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection: Ozone layer Please be bold and help to improve this article! Previous selections: Gustaf Skarsgård • À la carte Get involved with the TAFI project. You can: Nominate an article • Review nominations Posted by: MusikBot talk 00:09, 16 May 2016 (UTC) using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of WikiProject TAFI • Opt-out instructions[reply]

@Checkingfax, Lingzhi, Corinne, Twofingered Typist, and Jerome Kohl: Kindly help us make a small decision regarding whether we might use 'Three Gymnopedies' or 'Trois Gymnopédies' in the Michael Laucke article. It presently says "Three Gymnopédies". My preference is for a completely English version. I considered that many sheet music publications use the English spelling, the French translation of Michael Laucke uses only the French spelling, and the Satie guitar transcription by Laucke is a bilingual French/English edition which spells Gymnopedies in English. kind regards, Natalie Desautels _{…as within, so without} 05:34, 21 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• English with diacritic – {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 06:02, 21 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• English without diacritic or French – Natalie Desautels _{…as within, so without} 06:42, 21 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Whatever the heck the most influential journals and books do.  Lingzhi ♦ (talk) 07:11, 21 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Our article is just Gymnopédies, without three or trois. But I don't really care one way or the other.  Lingzhi ♦ (talk) 02:01, 22 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Schirmer sheet music and books publishing, one of the most notable music publishers, offers both Eng and Fr versions depending on the edition. We may have to make this small decision here. As John Cleese says ...'sorry, ...stuck with it' :). Natalie Desautels _{…as within, so without} 07:22, 21 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I'm assuming that "Gymnopédies" is the kind of word that cannot be easily translated; otherwise, it would have been. I've seen many works of both music and art with the title given first in the original language, in italics, followed by the English translation in parentheses, in regular (Roman) font. It would look like this: Trois Gymnopédies (Three Gymnopédies) with "Gymnopédies" remaining in italics since it is an untranslatable word. I am not a fan of mixing French and English in the same phrase, such as "Three Gymnopédies". I also think if "Gymnopedies" – without the accent – is used, it should be explained that since the word is not easily translated, the French word has been adopted into English for the sake of the title (reasoning that is a bit convoluted). I prefer Trois Gymnopédies (Three Gymnopédies), with some explanation somewhere as to what Gymnopédies means.  – Corinne (talk) 14:12, 21 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I also feel the original French title is appropriate here. Here http://www.word-detective.com/2010/03/gymnopedie/ is an interesting take on the word's origin; and another http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1O76-Gymnopdies.html Cheers. Twofingered Typist (talk) 22:24, 21 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Checkingfax and Lingzhi:. Hello Corinne and Twofingered Typist, I've taken the pleasure to implement your kind suggestions throughout the article. In its first occurence, we now find Trois Gymnopédies in italics, followed by the English translation in parentheses, (Three Gymnopédies), with "Gymnopédies" remaining in italics. Trois Gymnopédies is then used throughout. And I've added two references providing an explanation as to what Gymnopédies means. I'm sure this is precisely what Satie wanted, that is, to drive us crazy . Off topic a bit but as a point of interest, using great invention Jean-Louis Roux translated the works of Shakespeare, along with the English idiomatic expressions translated in a truly ingenious way. The Jabberwocky with its invented words, and for all its "slithy toves that gyred and gimbled in the wabe", has enjoyed many wonderful translations that make such good sense. 'Gymnopedie' is in fact very easy to translate, requiring little alteration. Still, I like the solution we found. kind regards, Natalie Desautels _{…as within, so without} 10:45, 28 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

A small whirlpool in a pond Hello, Natalie.Desautels. The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection: Whirlpool Please be bold and help to improve this article! Previous selections: Ozone layer • Gustaf Skarsgård Get involved with the TAFI project. You can: Nominate an article • Review nominations Posted by: MusikBot talk 00:08, 23 May 2016 (UTC) using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of WikiProject TAFI • Opt-out instructions[reply]

A photodetector salvaged from a CD-ROM. The photodetector contains 3 photodiodes visible in the photo (in center). Hello, Natalie.Desautels. The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection: Photodetector Please be bold and help to improve this article! Previous selections: Whirlpool • Ozone layer Get involved with the TAFI project. You can: Nominate an article • Review nominations Posted by: MusikBot talk 00:06, 30 May 2016 (UTC) using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of WikiProject TAFI • Opt-out instructions[reply]

• I asked for help with the photo of Elton John, apparently there was no way to save the hand. The changes were made to the file in the article and so are already visible there... If you are attached to that hand (pun intended), then you can either try again to edit the photo, or delete the photo from the article... but somehow or other, the blurry hand should be fixed. It's ugliness is distracting.  Lingzhi ♦ (talk) 00:33, 31 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Checkingfax:, Hi Lingzhi. That's funny :) At first I thought you were referring to 'out damned spot' . A friend in graphics is trying to improve it. I know it can be done 'cause I once had a better version but lost it; shame on me, as Bush jr. once said. I'll upload it in a day or two, and seek your opinion. We should fix it, but as Wilde said "Whether you do or whether you don't, you'll always regret it" or some such thing. :) kind regards, Natalie Desautels _{…as within, so without} 00:50, 31 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

It's already been fixed, see article. If you have another, better version. then go for it. Cheers.  Lingzhi ♦ (talk) 00:54, 31 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Checkingfax:, Hi Lingzhi. I Know. Ah, this often happens when I think in one language and write in another. :). I may have a better one in a day or two. kind regards, Natalie Desautels _{…as within, so without} 01:05, 31 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Checkingfax: Hi Twofingered_Typist and Corinne,

This concerns the section on the Flamenco Road album in the Michael Laucke article. I reworked what was a very long sentence, split it in three, and feel it is much better. It flows better now and is certainly less jumbled. Is it as clear as it can be? ...to wit:

• Ten works were recorded at five different studios in Montreal, each chosen for its unique acoustics, and the recording's instrumentation for the title track, Flamenco Road, required the use of 24 tracks. It comprises a combination of five guitars—flamenco, Spanish, classical and electric—and all natural acoustic guitars are played the Spanish way, using all the fingers of the right hand without a pick. The rhythm section includes bongos, four congas and a rock drum set blended with other percussion instruments such as claves, maracas and castanets. It further incorporates three dancers performing typical "palmas" (hand-clapping) in synchronization, as well as three trumpets, three pianos and a "country-style" violinist.[49]

Many thanks. kind regards, Natalie Desautels _{…as within, so without} 18:48, 1 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

See Below for my suggestion - minor changes. Twofingered Typist (talk) 20:07, 1 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Ten works were recorded at five different studios in Montreal, each chosen for its unique acoustics. The instrumentation for the recording's title track, "Flamenco Road", required the use of 24 tracks. It comprises a combination of five guitars—flamenco, Spanish, classical and electric—and all natural acoustic guitars are played the Spanish way, using all the fingers of the right hand without a pick. The rhythm section includes bongos, four congas and a rock drum set blended with other percussion instruments such as claves, maracas and castanets. It further incorporates three dancers performing typical "palmas" (hand-clapping) in synchronization, as well as three trumpets, three pianos and a "country-style" violinist.[49]

Many thanks for this improvement, deftly done. kind regards, Natalie Desautels _{…as within, so without} 20:44, 1 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The Hilton Athens is part of the Hilton Hotels & Resorts hotel chain. Hello, Natalie.Desautels. The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection: Hilton Hotels & Resorts Please be bold and help to improve this article! Previous selections: Photodetector • Whirlpool Get involved with the TAFI project. You can: Nominate an article • Review nominations Posted by: MusikBot talk 00:07, 6 June 2016 (UTC) using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of WikiProject TAFI • Opt-out instructions[reply]

A cubic zirconia crystal made by the Shelby Gem Factory Hello, Natalie.Desautels. The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection: Shelby Gem Factory Please be bold and help to improve this article! Previous selections: Hilton Hotels & Resorts • Photodetector Get involved with the TAFI project. You can: Nominate an article • Review nominations Posted by: MusikBot talk 00:07, 13 June 2016 (UTC) using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of WikiProject TAFI • Opt-out instructions[reply]

Dear Natalie,
With reference to this intervention and its resulting action, it occurs to me that if another editor found something objectionable about it (s/he didn't say what), then you might too. Therefore, I would like to offer you my apologies if anything in that edit offended you in any way. In case it did and you don't wish to discuss it any further, then I will respect your silence; I just hope you will consider the possibility that it was never my intent to offend.
With kind regards;
Patrick. ツ Pdebee.^{(talk)(guestbook)} 13:53, 13 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Pdebee To find anything objectionable with your generous, kind and immensely skillful outpouring of edits would be impossible. As I mentioned on your talk page here , your comments were immensely helpful and your further acknowledgement deeply appreciated. I believe I may be responsible for the mix-up since I simply copied the text without implementing the transclusion code. Then you left a reply which Lingzhi probably thought belonged on a talk page. So that's where I put it after going through the history and carefully digging into an old version to find what was deleted. ...espiègle, n'est-ce pas? I think what Lingzhi was getting at is that the FA or GA review pages should be kept short; I have even been told not to leave an explanation and to just say 'Done'. Apparently two editors review lots of FA review pages and so shortness helps them. At least that's what I've been led to understand.

Your edits along with Jerome Kohl's were also inspirational; I subsequently made 70 edits, had 20 references deleted—down from 140 references to 120—the content Notes section (11 references) was eliminated altogether by incorporating the information into the main text, and I carefully matched references with precisely the correct sentence and did some reference bundling too! So that was an amazingly productive collaboration , for which I send once again my profound thanks. warm regards, Natalie Desautels _{…as within, so without} 14:57, 13 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Natalie,

Many thanks for your re-assuring words and actions. This event has enabled me to learn how to close a section on an FA review page: I will be much briefer in future and will now add personal and/or teasing comments only at an editor's personal talk page.

By the way, my earlier reference to ...

(or maybe I should wait a little longer: until you've finished munching your way down the mountain of cookies/bagels/pancakes to celebrate said FA achievement! )

... was motivated by something you said after the ML article made it to GA, to the effect that you were celebrating by eating bagels or pancakes (or some other delicious indulgence...) but for the life of me, I can't find it anywhere and so can't provide you with the diff of your (mouthwatering) quip, at the time.

In any case, thank you for taking the time to send the above, and very well done! for all the improvements you've continued to apply to the article! I remain very impressed, and very proud of you!

With kindest regards, as always;

Patrick. ツ Pdebee.^{(talk)(guestbook)} 15:56, 13 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Patrick, a.k.a. Pdebee, . You are most welcome, always. The tantalizing bit you were looking for was archived here. ..just 'Find' the 2nd occurrence of the word 'croissant', as in 'Time to celebrate with a nice croissant, as we French are wont to do' and 'this huge stack of croissants '. ...de beaux souvenirs . Chaleureusement, Natalie Desautels _{…as within, so without} 21:14, 13 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Natalie,

Thank you so much for taking the time and trouble to trace that exact post which had eluded me!

And how is it possible that I could ever have forgotten (Mon Dieu!) that it was a croissant that serves as your gâterie cérémoniale de premier choix!

Good luck and very best wishes for the last stretch towards FA success!

With kindest regards;

Patrick. ツ Pdebee.^{(talk)(guestbook)} 23:22, 13 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Pdebee Thanks for the very nice wishes. The article stands much improved, so that's really a reward in itself. Never expect and you will never be dissapointed, the Buddha tells us . So I am enjoying the voyage, and again, your participation is so appreciated. Hm, ... a bit hundgry but it's too late for a croissant; aha, a "soupe de poisson avec sa rouille" beckons . kind regards, Natalie Desautels _{…as within, so without} 05:37, 16 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Checkingfax, Twofingered Typist, Corinne, Lingzhi, and Sainsf: @Jerome Kohl and Pdebee:

Greetings to all, Thanks to everyone for your wonderful help. I am excited about the progress this article is making as I give a good workout to my very fine tooth comb. Meanwhile, I would like to gather some opinions on whether the original language should be included in a Citation when using the '|Quotes=' parameter for a translated quotation. For example, [7], [25], [43], and a few others. I worked hard on typing up all the quotes but I dont mind eliminating the source language if need be, as it takes up twice the space or more at times. Nevertheless, The original language does add color, as languages are wont to do. Perhaps I slipped into this usage because it is in harmony with my multilingual upbringing, but it may be at odds with en-Wikipedia. Many thanks for your feedback. kind regards, Natalie Desautels _{…as within, so without} 07:18, 16 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• I have never seen anyone use this, or use so many translated quotations, so I wouldn't know. For me, I would keep all the text that is quoted on the page (which is a good inducement to keep those quotes short). I have seen reviewers saying you had too many quotes in the article and I mentally agreed; just deleting some quotes would also ease your burden. My two cents, FWIW.  Lingzhi ♦ (talk) 07:44, 16 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you Lingzhi! Re FWIW; it's worth a lot! . Duly noted; I will attend to making some decisions for further reducing quotes. (It really was "l'embarras du choix". I used the smallest fraction of all the articles I collected.). But my question is, even if I keep the quotes short, would you also include the original language. I guess not since you emphasize short, and the original language, colorful as it is, makes the quote twice as long. Correct? kind regards, Natalie Desautels _{…as within, so without} 08:11, 16 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

IMHO, every word translated should also be quoted in the original language.  Lingzhi ♦ (talk) 08:41, 16 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Hi, Natalie. Since the References section is near the bottom of the page I really do not care. That being said, I've always wondered why Wikipedia footnotes are not all the way at the bottom of the page? MOS:LAYOUT guides us to put them above the External links and below the See also sections.

On second thought, if the citation includes a URL I would only include the translated portion as the original version can be read from the URL.

To that end, I would suggest archiving all the URLs before they rot out. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 07:51, 16 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Checkingfax. ...very good point, to wit: since the original version can be read from the URL, I should trim the quote to show only the translated portion. Also, some URL's point to Commons items, so rot out is not a danger in these cases. For external URLs, the Wayback Machine already did some marvelous work, such as here ; notice the wonderful archiving in the url. The Flickr URLs should definitely be archived. Your thoughts on helping prevent link rot and nipping it in the bud, so to speak is very sound indeed. Many thanks once again. kind regards, Natalie Desautels _{…as within, so without} 08:25, 16 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Dear Natalie; in MOS:QUOTATIONS, the last section says:

Foreign-language quotations
Quotations from foreign-language sources should appear with a translation into English, preferably a modern one. Quotations that are translations should be explicitly distinguished from those that are not. Indicate the original source of a translation (if it is available, and not first published within Wikipedia), and the original language (if that is not clear from the context).
If the original, untranslated text is available, provide a reference for it or include it, as appropriate.
When editors themselves translate foreign text into English, care must always be taken to include the non-English source material, in italics (except for non-Latin-based writing systems), and to use actual and (if at all possible) common English words to translate. Beware linguistic "false friends": Portuguese Federativo should never be rendered as Federative but always as Federal, for example, while Spanish raro should usually be translated as strange or weird and only in limited contexts as rare.

With kind regards; Patrick. ツ Pdebee.^{(talk)(guestbook)} 09:06, 16 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you Patrick/Pdebee, for this definitive and authoritative answer. I keep on forgetting that whatever one needs to implement, chances are that WP has a policy somewhere with good advice! This is the solution I will use, along with some quote trimming. Many thanks once again for researching and sending along this policy to me; much appreciated. Kindest regards, Natalie Desautels _{…as within, so without} 09:53, 16 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

You're most welcome, Natalie. . Patrick. ツ Pdebee.^{(talk)(guestbook)} 10:06, 16 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The aqueduct of Segovia, Spain Hello, Natalie.Desautels. The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection: List of aqueducts in the Roman Empire Please be bold and help to improve this article! Previous selections: Shelby Gem Factory • Hilton Hotels & Resorts Get involved with the TAFI project. You can: Nominate an article • Review nominations Posted by: MusikBot talk 00:07, 20 June 2016 (UTC) using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of WikiProject TAFI • Opt-out instructions[reply]

Hi, I came here to tell you I've reviewed Template:Did you know nominations/Flamenco Road but also I noticed you'd picked up the userbox with my (sadly late) cat playing my Nord Electro. I converted it into a template this morning, and have popped that version on your userpage. It has a programmable gender so it displays "he" / "she" properly, and if there is demand I may do a "gender neutral" version as well. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 16:29, 22 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Ritchie333 First of all, my very sincere condolences; being a B.I.G. animal lover, especially the cat family, well... at times it's worse than losing a human. Cats never have what we call 'les arrières pensées' (hidden agenda, ulterior motive, or some such thing) ...perfect little creatures... So, thank you for this charming userbox as a fond memory that whatever, whoever passes though our lives remains always a little part of grateful for the richness they brought to us. Hm, 'especially when it came to chicken' . Like! One of mine likes to go to the kitchen sink, and have the few drops from the faucet fall on his little forehead. Then he always feels guilty for the little pleasure, so he comes to me right afterwards to be caressed; it's a sort of permission granted I guess. But I digress...

kind regards, with renewed thanks for this lovely userbox, Natalie Desautels _{…as within, so without} 19:56, 25 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Home page of Wikipedia Hello, Natalie.Desautels. The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection: Home page Please be bold and help to improve this article! Previous selections: List of aqueducts in the Roman Empire • Shelby Gem Factory Get involved with the TAFI project. You can: Nominate an article • Review nominations Posted by: MusikBot talk 00:07, 27 June 2016 (UTC) using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of WikiProject TAFI • Opt-out instructions[reply]

Editing News #2—2016 Read this in another language • Subscription list for this multilingual newsletter

Since the last newsletter, the VisualEditor team has fixed many bugs. Their workboard is available in Phabricator. Their current priorities are improving support for Arabic and Indic scripts, and adapting the visual editor to the needs of the Wikivoyages and Wikisources.

Recent changes[edit]

The visual editor is now available to all users at most Wikivoyages. It was also enabled for all contributors at the French Wikinews.

The single edit tab feature combines the "Edit" and "Edit source" tabs into a single "Edit" tab. It has been deployed to several Wikipedias, including Hungarian, Polish, English and Japanese Wikipedias, as well as to all Wikivoyages. At these wikis, you can change your settings for this feature in the "Editing" tab of Special:Preferences. The team is now reviewing the feedback and considering ways to improve the design before rolling it out to more people.

Future changes[edit]

The "Save page" button will say "Publish page". This will affect both the visual and wikitext editing systems. More information is available on Meta.

The visual editor will be offered to all editors at the remaining "Phase 6" Wikipedias during the next few months. The developers want to know whether typing in your language feels natural in the visual editor. Please post your comments and the language(s) that you tested at the feedback thread on mediawiki.org. This will affect several languages, including: Arabic, Hindi, Thai, Tamil, Marathi, Malayalam, Urdu, Persian, Bengali, Assamese, Aramaic and others.

The team is working with the volunteer developers who power Wikisource to provide the visual editor there, for opt-in testing right now and eventually for all users. (T138966)

The team is working on a modern wikitext editor. It will look like the visual editor, and be able to use the citoid service and other modern tools. This new editing system may become available as a Beta Feature on desktop devices around September 2016. You can read about this project in a general status update on the Wikimedia mailing list.

Let's work together[edit]

• Do you teach new editors how to use the visual editor? Did you help set up the Citoid automatic reference feature for your wiki? Have you written or imported TemplateData for your most important citation templates? Would you be willing to help new editors and small communities with the visual editor? Please sign up for the new VisualEditor Community Taskforce.
• Learn how to improve the "automagical" citoid referencing system in the visual editor, by creating Zotero translators for popular sources in your language! Watch the Tech Talk by Sebastian Karcher for more information.

If you aren't reading this in your preferred language, then please help us with translations! Subscribe to the Translators mailing list or contact us directly, so that we can notify you when the next issue is ready. Thank you!

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk), 21:09, 30 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, Natalie. I hereby accept your co-nom of me for a Wikipedia adminship and I have published the nom page here. I am humbled by your faith and trust in me. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 23:00, 1 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

A file that you uploaded or altered, File:Juan Habichuela flamenco guitarist.jpg, has been listed at Wikipedia:Files for discussion. Please see the discussion to see why it has been listed (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry). Feel free to add your opinion on the matter below the nomination. Thank you. ww2censor (talk) 23:02, 1 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

A file that you uploaded or altered, File:Antonio Rey Navas.jpg, has been listed at Wikipedia:Files for discussion. Please see the discussion to see why it has been listed (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry). Feel free to add your opinion on the matter below the nomination. Thank you. ww2censor (talk) 23:07, 1 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

A file that you uploaded or altered, File:Jean-Luc Montminy.jpg, has been listed at Wikipedia:Files for discussion. Please see the discussion to see why it has been listed (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry). Feel free to add your opinion on the matter below the nomination. Thank you. ww2censor (talk) 23:08, 1 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry but unfortunately the source pages do not indicate the copyright status of the images nominated as above. If the person is alive we can only accept freely licensed images for deceased people it is more complex and requires more information. ww2censor (talk) 10:53, 2 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Natalie,
I hope you are keeping well? All is well here and I am still on my Wikibreak, even though I login most days, mainly to check messages, tidy up my user page, and help a little bit where I can (like welcoming new editors). I have a lot of hand-written prose for several articles (current and new), but I prefer to carry out such marathons of massive updates when I'm sure I'll be able to devote several hours per edit session, which I can't at the moment.
I was sorry to see that the effort to bring the Laucke article to FA status has been suspended, but I am sure ce n'est que partie remise. I browsed it again today, after staying away for a while, and found a few sentences that I felt I could improve further. I have not gone through the whole article, but please feel free to revert any of these few copy edit changes if you end up concluding they don't add much value.
If you intend to work on something else and would wish for my participation, I'd be glad to consider joining you in another effort. For example, I noticed recently that the article on Quebec French does not have a section on archaïsmes, unlike the corresponding French article. This is a topic that fascinates me, as you know, and I'd love to work with someone like you on this, as a means to learn more about it. Another (cosmetic) aspect about that network of articles, is that some of the tables could have their entries sorted in alphabetical order, which I'd be happy to do, given my Wikignome-ish tendencies.
In any case, I trust the weather is warm now, where you live, and that you are in good health and happy.
Have a great weekend, Natalie.
With kindest regards, as ever;
Patrick. ツ Pdebee.^{(talk)(guestbook)} 14:55, 2 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

An answering machine Hello, Natalie.Desautels. The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection: Answering machine Please be bold and help to improve this article! Previous selections: Home page • List of aqueducts in the Roman Empire Get involved with the TAFI project. You can: Nominate an article • Review nominations Posted by: MusikBot talk 00:07, 4 July 2016 (UTC) using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of WikiProject TAFI • Opt-out instructions[reply]

An ear of rye Hello, Natalie.Desautels. The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection: Rye Please be bold and help to improve this article! Previous selections: Answering machine • Home page Get involved with the TAFI project. You can: Nominate an article • Review nominations Posted by: MusikBot talk 00:07, 11 July 2016 (UTC) using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of WikiProject TAFI • Opt-out instructions[reply]

North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 13:53, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hello! Your submission of Flamenco Road at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! BlueMoonset (talk) 00:43, 13 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

This nomination needs your attention as soon as possible. Thank you. BlueMoonset (talk) 17:45, 31 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Natalie, further issues have been found with all the previous hooks; you will need to come up with a new hook very soon if you wish this nomination to continue. Thank you very much. BlueMoonset (talk) 05:15, 12 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hi BlueMoonset. Many thanks for your good work. At this point it's probably best to throw this fish back for lack of 'hookiness' (pun intended). Alt 1 through 3 have some floundering potential though, but ...perhaps best to heed Budhha's advice ~ 'don't think you can save the drowning man (or fish, as it were)'. kindest regards, Natalie Desautels _{…as within, so without} 17:33, 13 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Natalie,
Have a good one, and don't work too hard! ... And no scoffing too many croissants when Canadian athletes win medals...
Looking forward to your return.
With kindest regards;
Patrick. ツ Pdebee.^{(talk)(guestbook)} 09:38, 18 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Pdebee, too late ; ...already put on several pounds due to croissants over indulgence ...now I have to find time to go on a diet on top of all this translation work! ...just kidding of course, but it was lovely to hear from you and thank you for the good wishes. ...be in touch again soon. kindest regards, Natalie Desautels _{…as within, so without} 19:41, 24 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Natalie,
I know you're still away and busy with Rio2016, but wanted to send you my warmest congratulations for turning into a:

I hope you won't be grogner too fiercely, though...
Speak again when you're back, later this month or so. Until then, please keep well and don't work too hard!
Bien cordialement,
Patrick. ツ Pdebee.^{(talk)(guestbook)} 14:13, 22 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Pdebee, Thank you so much; ...celebrating with the usual croissants here ...not 'grognard' at all . Rio was grand, ...helping people understand each others language is always rewarding for me. With the very little extra time I had, I took in some of the events, which were incredible. I've been really busy with translation work; ...not much time for anything else at the moment. It was lovely to hear from you, always. C'était très agréable d'avoir des vos nouvelles, toujours ...my kindest regards, Natalie Desautels _{…as within, so without} 17:33, 25 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Natalie,

Brava! Welcome back! Looking forward to your continued contributions here at the Wiki, once you've caught your breath.

Bien cordialement;

Patrick. ツ Pdebee.^{(talk)(guestbook)} 19:19, 25 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Read this in another language • Subscription list for this multilingual newsletter • Subscribe or unsubscribe on the English Wikipedia

Since the last newsletter, the VisualEditor Team has mainly worked on a new wikitext editor. They have also released some small features and the new map editing tool. Their workboard is available in Phabricator. You can find links to the list of work finished each week at mw:VisualEditor/Weekly triage meetings. Their current priorities are fixing bugs, releasing the 2017 wikitext editor as a beta feature, and improving language support.

Recent changes[edit]

• You can now set text as small or big.[5]
• Invisible templates have been shown as a puzzle icon. Now, the name of the invisible template is displayed next to the puzzle icon.[6] A similar feature will display the first part of hidden HTML comments.[7]
• Categories are displayed at the bottom of each page. If you click on the categories, the dialog for editing categories will open.[8]
• At many wikis, you can now add maps to pages. Go to the Insert menu and choose the "Maps" item. The Discovery department are adding more features to this area, like geoshapes. You can read more on MediaWiki.org.[9]
• The "Save" button now says "Save page" when you create a page, and "Save changes" when you change an existing page.[10] In the future, the "Save page" button will say "Publish page". This will affect both the visual and wikitext editing systems. More information is available on Meta.
• Image galleries now use a visual mode for editing. You can see thumbnails of the images, add new files, remove unwanted images, rearrange the images by dragging and dropping, and add captions for each image. Use the "Options" tab to set the gallery's display mode, image sizes, and add a title for the gallery.[11]

Future changes[edit]

The visual editor will be offered to all editors at the remaining 10 "Phase 6" Wikipedias during the next month. The developers want to know whether typing in your language feels natural in the visual editor. Please post your comments and the language(s) that you tested at the feedback thread on mediawiki.org. This will affect several languages, including Thai, Burmese and Aramaic.

The team is working on a modern wikitext editor. The 2017 wikitext editor will look like the visual editor and be able to use the citoid service and other modern tools. This new editing system may become available as a Beta Feature on desktop devices in October 2016. You can read about this project in a general status update on the Wikimedia mailing list.

Let's work together[edit]

Do you teach new editors how to use the visual editor? Did you help set up the Citoid automatic reference feature for your wiki? Have you written or imported TemplateData for your most important citation templates? Would you be willing to help new editors and small communities with the visual editor? Please sign up for the new VisualEditor Community Taskforce.

If you aren't reading this in your preferred language, then please help us with translations! Subscribe to the Translators mailing list or contact us directly, so that we can notify you when the next issue is ready. Thank you! Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 18:19, 14 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Natalie,
I hope you are keeping well and not too busy? All is well here...
I would feel honoured if you would permit me to add the following userbox on my user page:

However, please don't hesitate to decline, and I will readily accept—and fully respect—your decision, with good grace.
Thank you.
With kindest regards, as always;
Patrick. ツ Pdebee.^{(talk)(guestbook)} 21:29, 23 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Patrick,
...very nice to hear from you! I am in Paris staying on the gorgeous Avenue des Champs-Élysées ...can see the impressive Arc de Triomphe from my window. I'm here for a few weeks ...combination of business and pleasure, including real French croissants made using that incomparable French butter. ...and that unique 'soupe de poisson avec sa rouille', and the cod, 'loup' and other fish caught and served fresh daily, and ...did I mention the mille-feuille with that distinct Crème Chantilly? And theatre, concerts, books ...lots of books...

Oops, ...got carried away again it seems... Indeed, I would be honoured to be connected with the 'friend' userbox you so kindly mentioned.

kindest regards, as always, Natalie Desautels _{…as within, so without} 01:55, 24 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Natalie,

Mon Dieu; que de plats les plus savoureux les uns que les autres! On ne sait plus où donner de la bouche!