User talk:New9374

Hello, New9374, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few links to pages you might find helpful:

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Hello! Your submission of List of G:link stations at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! — Gasheadsteve ^{Talk to me} 11:35, 15 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

You've done a lot of good work on that article (and I'm pleased to see you like my Places citations). Well done! However, I suggest you restore (either in its previous form as a section or incorporated into the table -- perhaps as a column for "neighbourhoods" for all the unbounded localities within that suburb). The reason why we had that there before is because most readers don't really know what is or isn't an official suburb/bounded locality (the bounded ones) from the unbounded (unbounded localities and towns). To most readers, they are all suburbs. And when they think one is missing from the article, they will edit the article and add it into the suburb list. So by having the neighbourhoods (that's the term I usually use for unbounded localities as it seems to cause least confusion to the readers) already in the article explaining they are part of another suburb, it helps to avoid that problem of "new" suburbs popping up from time to time. I note that some of the neighbourhoods have articles, so it's a pity to lose links to them as well. For the same reason, I included the former suburbs and what became of them, because otherwise they pop up again if they are not mentioned. I think it's better to include the neighbourhoods and former suburbs in order to educate the reader, while at the same time deflecting unwanted edits. Kerry (talk) 02:06, 18 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your comments and citations Kerry. I have restored the section in it's previous form. I'm not sure what to do about the unofficial places, unbounded localities, neighbourhoods, towns, etc. I would like to clearly define the scope and the selection criteria so it can eventually meet the featured list criteria. I think the article is a short, complete list of every item that is verifiably a member of the group. Do you agree? What do you think the selection criteria should be? I agree it's also important to have minimize potential edit wars. New9374 (talk) 03:31, 18 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

My POV is always "what's most useful to the reader" so I tend to be indifferent to "featured" criteria (as that is about satisfying editors rather than readers). Most (all?) of the neighbourhoods are still citable. Many are listed in the Queensland Place Names e.g. Rainbow Bay, Isle of Capri, as unbounded localities, while others will probably be subdivision names and will tend to throw up some kind of mention in newspapers or advertising (the source only has to be reliable enough to demonstrate that this is a name in actual use by people). If you want a selection criteria for neighbourhoods, I'd say anything in the Queensland Place Names definitely belongs (as it is an official neighbourhood name), the others probably on the basis on someone's bothered to add them in the past and could be supported by some kind of citation. I would not be looking for completeness here (that would be silly as there are many subdivision names which are used for a short while but then fall out of use). The present list has been stable for some time, so I am guessing we have a lot of the main ones already. Kerry (talk) 04:05, 18 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Also for what it's worth, I don't tend to undo contributions from new people (aka readers) so long as it's good faith. They went to the trouble to add something so probably some other readers will find it useful. But I try to position it in the right part of the article, reword it into more encyclopedic style, and add a citation (all of which new contributors aren't so good at). Kerry (talk) 04:05, 18 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for being upfront about your POV. I am keen on completeness. I agree that many of the neighbourhoods are sourced, notable and listed in the Queensland Place Names as unbounded localities, and thank you for retrieving a list [of] unbounded localities and towns in the City of the Gold Coast, however unbounded localities are no longer named so there cannot be completeness in any such list. I agree that some subdivisions are sourced and notable and that it's silly to seek completeness. Given the incompleteness, how do you feel about re-naming the article to List of Gold Coast suburbs and localities (or similar), removing neighbourhoods and subdivions from the list (like all similar lists) and instead mentioning neighbourhoods and "[subdivisions] in the relevant suburb/locality articles"? New9374 (talk) 05:05, 18 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I think the title would be better as List of suburbs in the City of Gold Coast. Suburbs is intuitive to most readers who generally does not distinguish between suburbs and bounded localities (and frankly the supposed urban/rural distinction often is incorrect in practice -- many exceptions exist). I'd prefer to say "City of Gold Coast" rather than just "Gold Coast" (otherwise you will find people wanting to put NSW suburbs in there on the same crazy principle that Suburbs of Brisbane is built on). Just because the primary focus of the article is to list the official bounded areas, I don't see a problem with the additional information of former suburbs, neighbourhood names etc as the reader may expect to find them, so we provide them but educate the reader as their less formal status. As a general principle, the title and the lede should be "accessible" (meaning the ordinary reader can understand more or less what they can expect from the article) but of course we can strive to be more precise or more correct or whatever in the article body with suitable explanation. Or to put it another way, we don't need to be as precise in titles and lede paras. Kerry (talk) 05:31, 18 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I agree the title would be better ending with "in the City of Gold Coast" so that the scope and selection criteria are more clearly defined and so the potential for edit wars is minimized. However I prefer List of suburbs and localities in the City of Gold Coast to List of suburbs in the City of Gold Coast because regardless of the incorrectly practiced urban/rural distinction, there is still a distinction and that distinction is important: it would be false to state "every item on the list (e.g. Advancetown) is a suburb in the City of Gold Coast" - even in the title. As far as I know there is no term that includes "suburbs and localities" like municipalities does in the United States. Also the template for the City of Gold Coast and (most) other LGA templates are titled "suburbs and localities" presumably for this same reason. I am confident that I can simply distinguish suburbs and localities in the lede to make it "accessible". I think why not be precise in the title and lede as well as the article body? Indeed, to be featured list the lede must introduce the subject and define the scope and inclusion criteria. I agree that former suburbs and former localities should be included. I'll ask again though, how do you feel about removing neighbourhoods and subdivions from the list (like all similar lists) and instead mentioning neighbourhoods and "[subdivisions] in the relevant suburb/locality articles"? Another possibility is to split this list into two separate articles List of suburbs and localities in the City of Gold Coast and List of otherthing1, otherthing2 and otherthing3 in the City of Gold Coast just like the list of 67 counties in Florida and the list of 410 municipalities in those 67 counties in Florida. The scope of the former would be the existing complete 81 suburbs and localities, and the scope of the latter could be a dynamic list with sourced, cited, unbounded localities and subdivisions. The benefit of splitting is that each list will then include items at distinct administrative-division levels. New9374 (talk) 07:22, 18 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I see you tried to fix the {{cite QPN}} template. I tried myself but eventually gave up. I just don't seem to be able to use the template langauge to create the URL I need to go as directly as I can to the actual webpage. Everything worked fine for many years when the QPN website generated separate web pages for each entry. Now, they don't do that, but generate a search results page with an interactive way of displaying the individual entries that match the search. In theory I think it should be possible to generate the URL from the template code, but my attempts have failed. For example, the URL for Surfers Paradise should be:

https://www.dnrm.qld.gov.au/qld/environment/land/placenames/search#/search=Surfers_Paradise&types=0&place=Surfers_Paradise46088

but I seem to get problems with the template language where there are spaces in the place name. I've asked a few people but had a lot of "oh, maybe try this" or "maybe try that", but no joy so far. It frustrates me because I think it should be do-able. I'm open to any bright ideas on this problem! It would be great to have this template taking the reader to the right place again rather than them having to do their own search once they get there. Kerry (talk) 02:25, 18 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Actually I think there is a bigger problem here. The URL above seems to stopping working some minutes after a short while (minutes), so I am guessing that there is some sort of internal caching going on at the server end. If so, I don't think there is any solution to the problem. Kerry (talk) 02:25, 18 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I tried, I failed. The URL you provided did not work for me. I found that this URL below worked but I don't know how to create it using the template language:

https://www.dnrm.qld.gov.au/qld/environment/land/place-names/search#/search=Burleigh%20Waters&place=Burleigh_Waters46035

Does this URL work for you? If so it can be implemented by substituting the spaces for "%20" and underscores in the appropriates places in the template but I don't how to do that using the template language.

{{Cite QPN|41505|Kenmore|accessdate=13 September 2015}}

{{Cite web |url=https://www.dnrm.qld.gov.au/qld/environment/land/place-names/search#/search={{{2}}} substituting spaces with "%20"&types=0&place={{{2}}} substituting spaces with underscores{{{1}}} |work=[http://www.qld.gov.au/environment/land/place-names/ Queensland Place Names] |publisher=Queensland Government |accessdate={{{accessdate|}}} |title={{#if:{{{3|}}}|{{{2}}} - {{{3}}} (entry {{{1}}})|{{{2}}} (entry {{{1}}})}} |ref=CITEREFQPN{{{1}}} }}

All the best, New9374 (talk) 03:52, 18 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

If you are keen on that sort of thing, I have spreadsheets of all the Queensland Heritage properties, which you can use as a basis for the articles. However, the reason why those lists of heritage places articles exists is because people thought the lists too long for inclusion in the town/suburb rather than that there was an inherent desire to have such a list article. In the case of the Gold Coast, there aren't a lot of QHR properties (19 in the whole of Gold Coast City, which are listed in the individual suburbs where they are found). Whereas City of Brisbane has 499 (if you were thinking of a SE Qld list, it will be very long). I had been thinking that a better approach was to take Category:Queensland Heritage Register and create sub-cats for each LGA. Of course one can have a list article and a category, but I'm just not sure what extra value we buy with a list article. I had been intending to automate the process of this re-categorisation by LGA (rather than do it by hand). I think I can generate a AWB script from the spreadsheet for that purpose. There are about 1700 QHR sites in Queensland. There are additionally local government heritage registers, but their availability and format varies widely (often just minimal lists with no real info to provide clear evidence of notability).Kerry (talk) 05:19, 18 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you Kerry. I am keen on creating List of heritage sites on the Gold Coast (or similar). The extra value we buy with a list article over a category is that these sites do not warrant independent articles that could be added to a category, and instead the list article is explicitly created because most or all of the listed sites do not warrant independent articles. I agree that there are nineteen sites in the City of Gold Coast listed in QHR, and the Gold Coast Local Heritage Register (GCLHR) lists about ~60 additional sites too. The article I am keen on creating would probably include sites listed on the QHR or the GCLHR so it'd be between "aren't a lot" and "very long". New9374 (talk)

I agree with your logic, but I'd also add the GCLHR entries into their relevant Wikipedia suburb articles as well as that is already done with the QHR entries (these are sorted alphabetically by street name and by street number). From your interest in Gold Coast things, I am guessing you are a local (I'm in Brisbane). If so, you may find the folks at the local studies section at the Southport library very helpful for source materials. Some of them are active Wikipedians too. I ran a Wikipedia training session down there a couple of years back, probably time for another one using the Visual Editor. Kerry (talk) 05:50, 18 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that the GCLHR entries should also be mentioned in the relevant suburb articles. I am a local of the Gold Coast. Thank you for recommending the local studies section at the Southport library. I am keen on asking for consent to use GCLHR entries and historical photos from the Picture Gold Coast collection on Wikipedia. New9374 (talk) 06:02, 18 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

contact details

Thanks! New9374 (talk) 07:23, 18 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

On 18 June 2016, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article List of G:link stations, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that in preparation for the 2018 Commonwealth Games, three stations will be added to the initial sixteen stations in the G:link, a light rail system serving the Gold Coast in Queensland, Australia? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/List of G:link stations. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, List of G:link stations), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

— Maile (talk) 12:01, 18 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hi New9374, I just wanted to let you know I left you some comments a few days ago on you FLC here. Please let me know if you have any questions. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 22:16, 26 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Gonzo_fan2007. Thank you for your comments. I am addressing them now. New9374 (talk) 02:25, 28 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

	Hard worker award
	Thanks for contributing to the List of Gold Coast suburbs and List of G:link stations articles. - Shiftchange (talk) 22:48, 29 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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